You know Christ's statement about coming to fulfill the law and not abolish it was a very interesting one in relationship to the wanderings you've had here the last couple of days... I've been silent on the discussion... not knowing exactly where to jump in here.

This also brings in the discussion of yoke and burden which Christ talked about... you've heard it said "that this means this" but I say to you "it really means this"... doesn't sound a whole lot different from a lot of preachers that we hear today... I sometimes wonder how I would have responded to Jesus.  Some people are drawn to people who draw a hard line in the sand and say this is how it is... this means this... and that means that...

why is this the law of liberty? because it represents God's economy by which he relates to the world.

ryc: I could see having one of your blogs preached at your funeral... I'd be glad to do it... sumpn' like "Lance vs. the Septic Tank" comes to mind.

In response to the question, I have a question: How does God's Word, written or spoken, do anything?


Steve0

Ultimately the 10 commmandments are a reflection of God's character.  In Him is true freedom.  I have heard it said that if we look at it (esp the last 6) carefully we will see it put in the negative.  Don't steal, don't kill.  This allows me to do anything else that is not specifically listed here.  That can be a freeing thought.  For me it gets down to knowing that God is loving and I then am freed by understanding how He shows that love and how I can show that love to others.

Tim

I agree about 409 . . . it's evil! lol

The 10 Commandments outline sin and by doing so liberate.  They are a plumb line on which we can construct a relationship with God - we can choose - do we turn away from or towards God? 

Exodus 20:20 - And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin.”

I wanted to get by and comment on your last post but I was not sure you read back to past posts or not.  I love Curious Savage.  We did the show a couple years ago and I had the chance to play a roll. It is a great play with a great message inbedded in it about life.  Have fun.

One of my OT professors in college used to pound it into our heads that the Commandments (not just these ten, but all through Scripture) are not meant to enslave but to libertate. If every one of us carried out the commandments or Law of God, there would be no need for all the man made rules and laws we have to come up with to take care of us not fulfilling the Law.

It's when you know what you can't do that you figure out what you can do.

From Snowberry:

Lance: How do the Ten Commandments (see Exodus 20) liberate?

Steve: How does God's Word, written or spoken, do anything?

me: God's Word reveals Truth.

Jesus: <TO those Jews who had believed Him>If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free. (John 8:31-32)

:-O Four-O-UH-OH! LOL!  Been there done that, wouldn't even come off buffing it with the T-shirt I got!  FYI, a solution of water and vinegar makes a really good glass cleaner (about 4-1 ratio, with the water being the 4) especially to cut stuff on glass (like 409, heh!)  I worked in a store where we sold a bunch of glass and periodically we had to wash it all down.  We got a big bucket of fairly warm water and vinegar, then dunked the pieces and allowed them to air dry.  I was always amazed at how well it worked.  With windows, coarse paper like newspaper or those stiff work towels like they have at the gas station work best.

Hmmm, does the law liberate? I'd have to say only by finding one's self wanting at realizing the expectations therein (I flunk MAJORLY on just the first one alone!  It's all about God. ) But, maybe this is not what you are asking at all. I like this: "O law! You would climb into the kingdom of my conscience, and there reign and condemn me for sin, and would take from me the joy of my heart which I have by faith in Christ, and drive me to desperation, that I might be without hope. You have overstepped your bounds. Know your place! You are a guide for my behavior, but you are not Savior and Lord of my heart. For I am baptized, and through the Gospel I am called to receive righteousness and eternal life... So trouble me not! For I will not allow you, so intolerable a tyrant and tormentor, to reign in my heart and conscience-- for they are the seat and temple of Christ the Son of God, who is the king of righteousness and peace, and my most sweet savior and mediator. He shall keep my conscience joyful and quiet in the sound and pure doctrine of the Gospel through the knowledge of this passive and heavenly righteousness." Martin Luther & Tim Keller

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" -- frees us from the bondage and confusion of polytheism
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" -- frees us from idolatry
"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain" -- frees us from underestimating how seriously we must take our relationship with God
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy" -- frees us to worship God regularly, to imitate God regularly, frees us from overwork, and frees us to prepare for additional work
"Honour thy father and thy mother" -- frees us from an early death
"Thou shalt not kill" -- frees us from bloodguilt and capital punishment or jail time
"Thou shalt not commit adultery" -- frees us from messing up our own marriages and the marriages of others
"Thou shalt not steal" -- frees us from being a thief
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" -- frees us from injustice
"Thou shalt not covet" -- frees us from being discontent

-off the top of my head.

All of Gods word is law, when he adds to his word, to say you have been taken out from under the law, that knew word becomes a new (law of liberty).  This doesn't mean he has done away with any of his word only add to it.  Paul was walking in this new law, when he said all things are lawfull for me, but not all things are expedient for me to do.  Paul said that he would not know sin but by the law, and the strenght of sin is by the law.  He understood some of the benfits, of being from under the law, that's why he also said (that he didn't judge himself), to do so or anyone else would put him back under the law again, which would cause sin to revive.  To me the ealier comment I made was a clear picture as to how it would be, if you were not under the law any more.  It would be unto us as it was with Adam before he ate of the tree of good and evil, when it was only measured back to him, shaken down running over, what ever he measured, not sin.

tough questions... let me think first... lol

I was just made aware of an urgent need... please come by and read about it!!!

I think the 10 commandments were very strict and had to be followed anyway to be saved. The Exodus 20 to me seems commanding kinda thing. As to compared to what Jesus shared from the new testament, the 10 commandments still continues and is embraced but it is told and presented in a loving way. I may be wrong then please forgive me saying this. Because Jesus presented himself and proved in all the situations while he was on the earth till his death. So that does not force us to obey his comands but rather follow and make effort to live by them in a very humble way in order to pay our respect to jesus for what he did for us. Keep raising debates on things like this. This will enlighten us and help come up with the truth about the bible. God bless you lance.....

That is a very very very tough question

I am really stumped brother

I don't know

But I will read what others have said here...

Paul speaks of freedom in 1 Corinthians, and I just posted on that. (not on freedom, but on faith.)

In response to Stevo: YES, Gods word is living. Sounds cliche, but it's true.

17 answers and it is not 8:30 am. Whoa!!! Okay, what did you do to my car? I need to give you a cleaning lesson. (You need an alcohol based product for windows, vinegar is the best). The 10 commandments --- well, here is what I was just told on Friday --- if you think it in your mind/heart you have done it. This makes it impossible for me. Even the least little thought (seed) enters my head. It is difficult for me to discern good and evil in this spinning vaccuum. I don't see how the commandments give us freedom. I think they do help us make choices. At least in the multi-choice questions of  life we know that the answer isn't always C and that none of the above is almost always the wrong choice - sometimes all of the above is the right choice - I guess (ALL OF THE ABOVE) is the real choice - (ABOVE MEANING HEAVEN)  I'll read more and see if I can learn anything here! Thanks !

JC - It [the law] represents God's economy by which he relates to the world? That sounds profound, but what do you mean? Are you saying it merely summarizes all the structure and order God intends? Feel free to elaborate.

Steve - LOL. Yes, I think you could turn the whole septic fiasco into a really good message. I'd have to leave instructions for you and Tina to flip over who gets to do the funeral. The winner gets to preach about the septic, the loser gets to preach to the septic. hehehehe. As for your question, my answer would be it has power when the Holy Spirit is included.

Tim - To say the big 10 reflect God's character is right on. In Him is true freedom. YES! Jesus said he was the Truth and that the Truth would set you free. Right on.

Jennifer Marie -

Grace - God purifies and once we are purified what is left? The pure relationship with God, without division. It is sin which divides, so when sin is removed there is no division.

Heather - Yes, I do check back posts for comments, at least those visible on the top page (last 5). I'm surprised so many people know about this play.

Tina - Sounds like a bright guy.

Shell - That's an interesting way of looking at it, but essentially... yep.

Snowberry - My answer is posted.

Zinc - Well, the glass cleaner I got has vinigar in it, so I guess I'm good to go. As to the rest, Luther was a sharp guy, but some of what he said kinda makes me cringe. The idea of grace and mercy and forgiveness and atonement aren't really all that new. Interestingly, God showed all these to the Israelites before he gave them the written law. Christ came, showed us these things, and became our atoning sacrifice before the Holy Spirit came in power to indwell believers at large and thus bring the good news to the whole world. Luther seems here to be putting down the law. The law was in fact good. The problem is man isn't. So, God created the means by which we could be restored. Ultimately it all comes down to choice. We choose God, or not. He chooses to show mercy, or not. He is sovereign, yet the greatest miracle is that he allows us to have a choice. Not free will per se, but rather we choose God's will or not God's will. As to His choice, he remains sovereign.

Laser - WOW!!! You get the award for the answer most like my own. I loved the way you summarized - a lot shorter than mine. I had a little different take on a couple of my answers, but in general we're really on the same page, I think.

Eddie Ray - I can see you're really thinking about this. Good thoughts.

M3 - If you think, then I've done my job.

Ashok - My dear young brother, I'm so excited you piped up and put in your thoughts. You are right. The 10 Commandments are good. They point us in the direction we should go (Prov 22:6). It shows God's love that he chastens us and directs our paths. I do so much love your answer. You've hit upon the very deepest part of the heart of it.

Gideon - There are many good answers here today. I agree with most of them, though admittedly some more than others. There's my answer in the post itself now for you to read, too. That said, it doesn't matter what is written in xanga or on any sheet of paper. It matters what is written on the doorpost of your heart.

Agent Orange - I don't think faith is supposed to be blind. Childlike, but not blind. We are instructed to "test the Spirits" to determine what is of God. We are instructed to be discerning. Jesus did miracles so we would have proof. He gave us an extensive amount of proof. There's a whole side of Christianity devoted to "apologetics" - the study of proofs of scripture. We are called to study the scriptures, used them to teach and give reproofs. I've heard the scriptures refered to as philosophy before. On some levels this is true, but if it never goes deeper, then you never find God. This is the problem with philosophy - it doesn't find, it only seeks. Jesus said seek and you will find. Philosophy (hollow philosophy practiced to make men look intelligent) in and of itself seeks without earnest intention of finding. This is what Paul condemned. We are also admonished to seek wisdom. Not for its own sake, but for enriching our relationship, love, service and obedience to God and others. Wisdom for its own sake is like philosophy for its own sake - it is hollow and self-gratifying and self-glorifying, things God abhors.

Poet Rose - LOL. Your car is fine. I used 409 on my car last time. I think I got it cleaned up this time with proper stuff. hehehe. Well, I'm sure you'll learn a lot if you read all these great answers everyone has given. I know I have.

Coolness~ Steve and I get to fight over who preaches to the septic???

RYC: I think maybe we have a different understanding of the word "free." Yea, Luther had some kooky ideas, but we all do (we might have had some of the same as he had we worn his shoes.)  I don't see this as a put down of the Law, but an acknowledgment that Christ is a fulfillment of the Law (not superceding, but fully completing it's requirements.)  This seat and temple is that of Christ the Son of God, who is the king of righteousness and peace, and my most sweet savior and mediator. Though we make choices daily, his spirit guides us and he keep my conscience joyful and quiet in the sound and pure doctrine of the Gospel through the knowledge of his heavenly righteousness. It's all about God and true love is always the goal.

Thanks for your comment this morning, and for your prayers.

One thing I would note about God's seventh-day rest. God did not become inactive when he rested on the seventh day. Genesis 2:2 describes God as resting from all the work of creating he had been doing. However, God's "rest" ever since then has been chock full of activity. I think that's what our "rest" in God is designed to look like. We no longer spend our lives trying to create our own salvation and trying to be the king of our own kingdom. Instead, we rest in the salvation God has provided in Christ, and we enter into the work of his kingdom as joint-heirs and co-laborers with Christ.

Hello again after a very long time .

Here's another cleaning tip: Don't clean glass with a rag which leaves lent behing, use newspaper.

Growing up in a Christian home we have heard the Ten Commandment all of our lives and so we never really look at them when we become adults. It's good to go back and read them again and find out what God is trying to say to us through them. Excellant post.

Shoot!  I'm 61 away from 25K...

Laserlawyer has an interesting take on the sabbath rest idea.  I have seen that before, the whole idea of this rest being one that is sort of a physical example of the spiritual "rest" we should have concerning our salvation.  No work on the sabbath, no work will earn us salvation.

Tim