| | Warning: nerdy references to anime and computer games follow.
Second warning: focus quickly fluctuates between science, anime and computer games, some bastard combination of the three, philosophy, and all of the above.
Second warning: Longpost is loooong. Xanga needs some cut thing like LiveJournal has. Well then, KChasm, why don't you go to LiveJournal? Well, maybe if Xanga totally crashes and I lose everything here.
[22:46:36] <BewareTheCheese> oh
[22:46:38] <BewareTheCheese> Uncertainty
[22:47:03] <BewareTheCheese> Basically, it takes the principles of physical chemistry, and appies it to a 'real-life" thing =/
[22:47:06] <Comic-Z> >.>
[22:47:15] <BewareTheCheese> So like, the way it works
[22:47:32] <BewareTheCheese> is that there's some process that has a chance of happening
[22:47:43] <BewareTheCheese> And uncertainty determines that you can't possibly know which outcome happened
[22:47:47] <BewareTheCheese> One outcome kills the cat
[22:47:49] <BewareTheCheese> the other doesn't
[22:47:54] <BewareTheCheese> So until you actually look
[22:47:57] <BewareTheCheese> You don't know
[22:48:30] <BewareTheCheese> Like, in normal life, there's only one or the other possible outcome
[22:48:34] <Comic-Z> u guys are too smart >.>
[22:48:39] <BewareTheCheese> And probability determines that the cat dies
[22:48:50] <BewareTheCheese> But uncertainty at the molecular level says that both happen at the same time
[22:49:00] <BewareTheCheese> And they just like, shift between the two options or something >.>
[22:49:07] <RoyalKnight> Yeah.
[22:49:08] <BewareTheCheese> And so the cat is alive and dead...until you look at it
[22:49:13] <RoyalKnight> Wave equation and all.
[22:49:21] <RoyalKnight> Fluctuates between the two possibilities.
[22:49:30] <RoyalKnight> Hence both and neither at the same time.
[22:49:32] <Comic-Z> wave equasion?
[22:49:37] <Comic-Z> equation*
[22:49:48] <KChasm> What if there's a chance that the cat with absorb the poison and become a poisonous mutant cat?
[22:50:04] <KChasm> Is the cat simutaneously alive, dead, and poisonously mutant?
[22:50:37] <BewareTheCheese> Yes
[22:50:38] <BewareTheCheese> But
[22:50:49] <BewareTheCheese> Uncertainty doesn't account for things like that =/
[22:51:04] <Comic-Z> if it turned into some super mutant poison cat
[22:51:09] <Comic-Z> it would probabally like
[22:51:12] <Comic-Z> destroy the box
[22:51:21] <KChasm> Well, if it account for things, it certainly wouldn't be as uncertain. Or something?
[22:51:25] <fish> the box's supposed to be indestructible
[22:51:32] <Comic-Z> ic XD
[22:52:16] <KChasm> What happens when an immovable box meets an unstoppable super mutant poison cat?
[22:52:31] <BewareTheCheese> <.<;;
[22:52:41] <Comic-Z> then everyone in the room dies
[22:52:44] <BewareTheCheese> Immovable and unstoppable can't logically exist in the same univers
[22:52:45] <Manah> fish
[22:52:46] <BewareTheCheese> e
[22:54:33] <RoyalKnight> Unmovable wins, barely.
[22:54:42] <BewareTheCheese> RK...
[22:54:49] <BewareTheCheese> I thought you'd understand the logic behind that >.>
[22:54:57] <BewareTheCheese> You'd better be being sarcastic
[22:55:18] <Comic-Z> because
[22:55:22] <Comic-Z> if theres something thats unstoppable
[22:55:25] <Comic-Z> then theres nothing
[22:55:25] <fish> fish
[22:55:28] <Comic-Z> that is immovable?
[22:55:32] <BewareTheCheese> yes
[22:55:35] <BewareTheCheese> and vice versa
[22:55:36] <RoyalKnight> Rho Aias vs. Gae Bolg.
[22:55:40] <BewareTheCheese> XD
[22:55:40] <Comic-Z> D:
[22:55:43] <KChasm> XD
[22:55:44] <Comic-Z> whats Rho Aias?
[22:56:12] <Comic-Z> argg i should stop asking stupid questions and just look them up T_T
[22:56:12] <DanteObscuri> Rho Aias is the point were the stick is sticked.
[22:56:15] <RoyalKnight> The ultimate projectile defense vs. the ultimate projectile.
[22:56:21] <Comic-Z> hmm
[22:56:27] <RoyalKnight> And, in Naruto...
[22:56:27] <Comic-Z> Gae Bolg is considered a projectile?
[22:56:37] <Comic-Z> well the 2nd one is right?
[22:56:42] <Comic-Z> arent there 2 versions...?
[22:56:42] <Manah> Yes fish
[22:56:45] <BewareTheCheese> Well, obviously they weren't the ultimates of each respective class =/
[22:56:46] <Manah> I do have a question
[22:56:47] <Manah> why fish?
[22:56:53] <fish> because fish.
[22:56:56] <RoyalKnight> ...Gaara's ultimate hard defense versus what's his face's ultimately hard attack.
[22:56:59] <Manah> Yes?
[22:57:05] <fish> yes.
[22:57:07] <Demonblooded> ROCK LEE
[22:57:09] <Manah> :o
[22:57:12] <BewareTheCheese> It wasn't ultimate because it got broken
[22:57:13] <fish> wait
[22:57:15] <fish> what's the damn question
[22:57:16] * Manah has quit IRC (Quit: dies)
[22:57:25] <Comic-Z> Opening the Chakra gates or wahtever?
[22:57:26] <BewareTheCheese> [01:51:50] <+BewareTheCheese> Immovable and unstoppable can't logically exist in the same univers
[22:57:40] <Comic-Z> what is Chakra gate opening like the ultimate thing in naruto?
[22:57:43] <fish> anyway
[22:57:46] <Comic-Z> or something
[22:57:51] <fish> lord el-melloi = gaara
[22:57:59] <fish> + t1000 hybrid
[22:58:05] <RoyalKnight> BAHAHA
[22:58:25] <DanteObscuri> Which one?
[22:58:32] <DanteObscuri> Zero's or Waver?
[22:58:33] <RoyalKnight> Also, BTC.
[22:58:42] <RoyalKnight> Ea vs. Avalon.
[22:58:47] <BewareTheCheese> ?
[22:58:49] <Demonblooded> what if the unstoppable object doesnt move the unmovable object, but instead moves everything else
[22:59:20] <RoyalKnight> Ultimate Anti-World versus Ultimate Defense.
[22:59:24] <RoyalKnight> And, keep in mind...
[22:59:30] <RoyalKnight> ...Avalon came from the World.
[22:59:30] <Comic-Z> then it wouldnt be unstoppable
[22:59:36] <fish> cats vs dogs.
[22:59:45] <Comic-Z> it wouldnt be unstoppable cause it couldnt move the unmoveable object
[23:00:13] <Demonblooded> but the box would be in different surroundings and efectivly moved
[23:00:53] <Demonblooded> the improbability drive from futurama
[23:01:08] <RoyalKnight> Oh... is -that- where Drm got it from?
[23:01:09] <Comic-Z> i guess iff you destroyed the
[23:01:15] <BewareTheCheese> Improb drive?
[23:01:19] <BewareTheCheese> That's from hitchhiker's guide
[23:01:20] <Comic-Z> building or land the unmovable object was
[23:01:24] <Comic-Z> on
[23:01:29] <RoyalKnight> Oh... so THAT's where Drm got it from?
[23:01:30] <Comic-Z> it would move but
[23:01:47] <Comic-Z> if it was ultimately unmovable
[23:01:48] <RoyalKnight> Anyways...
[23:01:50] <Comic-Z> it would jsut stay there D:
[23:01:53] <Comic-Z> or something XD
[23:01:53] <Comic-Z> idk
[23:01:57] <Comic-Z> im not good with this stuff ;-;
[23:02:03] <RoyalKnight> The ultimate you're using...
[23:02:04] <fish> game over?
[23:02:09] <Comic-Z> lol
[23:02:09] <RoyalKnight> ...is basically Akasha.
[23:02:16] <Comic-Z> Akasha?
[23:02:24] <RoyalKnight> Any limited "ultimate" is not ultimate.
[23:02:34] <RoyalKnight> Akasha = Root of All Things.
[23:02:39] <RoyalKnight> Let's just say, everything.
[23:02:39] <Comic-Z> ic
[23:02:53] <RoyalKnight> So, naturally...
[23:03:05] <RoyalKnight> ...ultimate is going to have to be used in the relative context.
[23:03:35] <RoyalKnight> And therefore, Gaebolg vs. Rho Aias and Ea vs. Avalon is valid.
[23:04:12] <Comic-Z> ...
[23:04:18] <Comic-Z> i dont quite get it >.>
[23:04:46] <RoyalKnight> BTC was saying that the example isn't valid because, "obviously," they're not ultimates.
[23:04:52] <BewareTheCheese> RK isn't using real world logic
[23:04:56] <BewareTheCheese> He's using Nasulogic =/
[23:05:22] <RoyalKnight> Alright, let's just say ultimate = GOD.
[23:05:29] <RoyalKnight> Not any particularly one.
[23:05:49] <RoyalKnight> But the idea of perfection and unity.
[23:06:00] <RoyalKnight> If you say that...
[23:06:16] <RoyalKnight> ...then there's no room for anything else...
[23:06:23] <RoyalKnight> ...let alone an ultimate.
[23:06:31] <RoyalKnight> Like, NOTHING.
[23:06:36] <Comic-Z> ...
[23:06:38] <fish> it's a wonderful (relative) world.
[23:06:42] <RoyalKnight> Yes.
[23:07:00] <RoyalKnight> If humans are using "ultimate" in any sort of form...
[23:08:09] <RoyalKnight> ...it's going to end up being relative to whatever "concept of ultimate" they're implying.
[23:08:13] <Demonblooded> anything that can be made can be broken, the goal is just to make it hard enough to break that everyone quits trying
[23:08:26] <RoyalKnight> Yeah.
[23:08:29] <RoyalKnight> And when something is relative...
[23:08:50] <fish> or idea of unlimited being based on the idea of limits
[23:08:53] <RoyalKnight> ...it's not an absolute that can just logically override another concept by mere existence.
[23:09:01] <fish> which automatically makes that being an imperfect concept of unlimited
[23:09:06] <fish> by nasu logic
[23:09:16] <Comic-Z> ic...
[23:09:17] <RoyalKnight> Actually, I've always really thought that.
[23:09:28] * Xianoir|Texas has joined #beastslair
[23:09:30] <RoyalKnight> Infinite isn't something we can think of.
[23:09:38] <RoyalKnight> We definite it relative to the finite.
[23:09:58] <RoyalKnight> And as such...
[23:10:11] <RoyalKnight> ...for a lot of things that have to do with religion...
[23:10:35] <fish> so anyway what this all means is that
[23:10:39] <fish> ORT > everybody else
[23:10:50] <RoyalKnight> ...stuff like an eternal deity or universe or whatever... is beyond human logic and not even applicable.
[23:10:51] <RoyalKnight> LOL
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| | Posted 4/13/2007 11:17 PM - 17 views - 0 comments
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