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| Neolibertarian
Its been weeks and it just occured to me that I hadn't directed anybody from this site to my new:
www.xanga.com/neolibertarian | | |
| Debate
Lollapuloosa: ok now....
Lollapuloosa: I will be moderating this match up
Lollapuloosa: the long awaited debate between you two
Lollapuloosa:
now.... First question regarding gay marriage in the United States...
How do you feel about gay marriage in the state mass. and what shall we
do about this issue in the future
Lollapuloosa: OK Liberal lion may go first
LightExcalibur42:
I recognize that states have a right to set their own domestic
policies, including marriage laws. Massachusetts may do what it wishes.
I note, however, my objection to government recognizing marriage at all.
Lollapuloosa: ok... Liberal Lion... then Morrison
Lollapuloosa: ok now morrison you may respond
BimmerPhile M3: wait.....I didn't see anything from lion
Lollapuloosa: hes LightEx
BimmerPhile M3: ah
BimmerPhile M3: k
ChasinTheTrane16: its morrison's turn..
Morrison1640:
gay marrige is mass. has weakened the difintion of the institution,
allowing gays to be married would allow all sorts of crazy unions.
Suppose two friends want to save on taxes, so they get married.
LightExcalibur42: exactly the problem with the state recognizing marriage at all
LightExcalibur42: whats to stop two friends, man and woman, getting married to save on taxes?
LightExcalibur42: government interfering in marriage cheapens it
LightExcalibur42: it should be left to religions
Lollapuloosa: hey hey hey
Lollapuloosa: take turns
LightExcalibur42: oh yeah...
Morrison1640:
allowing gays to get married doesnt address the issue of the goverment
interfering in marrige...you are here to convince me that gays should
be allowed to marry...
LightExcalibur42: no
LightExcalibur42: i am here to convince you of my position
LightExcalibur42: i have no position on gays being allowed to marry
LightExcalibur42: it doesn't affect me
Lollapuloosa: ok ok ok.... lets stay in order
Morrison1640:
It does "affect" you. Suppose someone wants to marry a dog? marrying
multiple wives should be legal if gay can get married....do you support
polygamy?
LightExcalibur42: yes. i do support polygamy.
Lollapuloosa: =-O
Lollapuloosa: lol
LightExcalibur42: i'm not a polygamist myself, but i don't presume to tell other people whats right
Morrison1640:
well unlike you, the majority of Americans care about the institution
of marrige and wil not allow it to be destroyed
Morrison1640: im one of thos Americans
Morrison1640: those*
LightExcalibur42: the best way to protect the institution of marriage is to stop the government from interfering in it.
BimmerPhile M3: *hear hear!*
Morrison1640:
if the goverment didnt interfere gays would not want to get
married.....they want it for the benifits....thats why they havent
accepted the term "civil union"
Morrison1640: goverment interference is what drives gays to get married
LightExcalibur42: You're just padding my argument
LightExcalibur42: if your facts are true, then you should be on my side
LightExcalibur42: end government interference in the covenant of marriage.
Morrison1640:
youre argument is that goverment should not interfere...... if
goverment didnt interfere....what would be the point of getting
married?
Morrison1640: why not just call yourself a "married" couple? getting the benifits and the recognition...is what the gays want
Morrison1640: and there has to be goverment inteference for that
LightExcalibur42: you are arguing that if there were no government benefits, gays wouldn't want to get married
LightExcalibur42: fine
LightExcalibur42: then let us end all government benefits of marriage
LightExcalibur42: problem solved
Morrison1640:
I was responding to your claim that goverment should not be involved...
strangely this is the only topic where the Left seems to believe
goverment should not be involved...
LightExcalibur42: I do not represent the Left.
Morrison1640: you do represent the Left.....
ChasinTheTrane16: trust me
ChasinTheTrane16: he doesnt
LightExcalibur42: You are mistaken.
Lollapuloosa:
He is a libertarian for the record.... the left would be in support of
the government giving gays more and more... he is for us cutting all of
them
Lollapuloosa: ok now... whose up for the next subject
LightExcalibur42: I am
Morrison1640: yea ok
Lollapuloosa:
OK now the next.... under god in the pledge... Do you agree with it,
and what should be done about it if you consider it a problem...
Morrison has the floor
Morrison1640: umm I agree with it.
Lollapuloosa: ok now the response
Morrison1640: i dont consider it a problem, nor do I consider it a problem that congress prays before every session
LightExcalibur42:
I believe in a seperation of church and state, and therefore believe it
is inappropriate to tie together patriotism and religion in the minds
of young children.
Morrison1640: Ok, a seperation of church and
state is one thing..i can accept that concept...but why hasnt the Left
attacked the goverment for enforcing religon in other goverment
instituitons..like congress or the walls of the supreme court
LightExcalibur42:
I do not represent the left. However, I do advocate that religion
should be removed from the other institutions as well.
Morrison1640: or our currency? its because they dont want our children to have values...
Morrison1640: so why inst there an outcry from the Left about those issues..or "neo libertarain" groups?
LightExcalibur42:
I'm telling you, right now. I oppose congress praying. I oppose God
being on our currency. I oppose pretty much any other place where
church and state have been at all blurred.
LightExcalibur42: I do not represent the Left. And there are no neolibertarian groups.
Morrison1640: prayer in school will install great values in our children..
Morrison1640:
the Left hasnt been able to figure out why are kids are the way they
are...their "war on drugs" didnt work...why not give us a chance to
make America a better place?
Morrison1640: excuse me..."war on poverty"
Morrison1640: I say we combine these two last issues..they both connect to each other one way or another
LightExcalibur42: Prayer in school would be perfectly acceptable if our school system wasn't fused with the government.
LightExcalibur42: however, it is
LightExcalibur42: until that changes, I will argue against "exceptions" being made in the sepration of church and state
Morrison1640:
the seperation of chruch and state isnt written down somwhere...its an
idea...the 1st admenment says that congress cant "make" kids do
religous things
Morrison1640: children dont "have" to pray
LightExcalibur42:
the 1st amendment doesn't even say that. it says that the government
cannot encourage or discourage a religion or religions
LightExcalibur42: paying government employees (teachers) to lead prayer would be doing just that
Lollapuloosa:
Just lemme know when one of you has had enough of this topic... ive
been told i get to throw a bonus out there at the end
Morrison1640: it says that no law can be created that prohibits the free exercise of religon?
Morrison1640: no one is forcing these kids to pray
Morrison1640: we will be paying teachers to allow kids to pary
Morrison1640: not make them
LightExcalibur42: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
Morrison1640: yea James, we're not gonna hold you up..we know you have a life too.
LightExcalibur42: paying teachers to lead prayer is respecting an establishment of religion
LightExcalibur42: i am ready for the next topic, morrison has obviously exhausted his arguments
Morrison1640:
youre twisting the text...the fathers didnt mean that we cant make laws
about religon they would hypocrites for doing so...
Lollapuloosa: ok now for the bonua
Lollapuloosa:
WHat should be done to help the continent of africa get out of the hole
its been in for all time... and what specifically should be done about
the situation in Sudan and the situation in central africa which is
spilling over into
Lollapuloosa: all of the neighboring countries?
Morrison1640: directed to?
LightExcalibur42: oooooh
Morrison1640: both of us?
LightExcalibur42: nice pick, james
Lollapuloosa: ok... neolibertarian you have the floor
LightExcalibur42:
I believe foreign aid should not come in the form of charity; I believe
we best help africans by investing in them, encouraging capitalism and
industrialization
LightExcalibur42: As for Sudan, what can we do?
LightExcalibur42:
our military is occupied elsewhere, and the international community is
both unwilling and unable to help, no sense trying to convince them
Lollapuloosa: no fly zones to eliminate the small number of aircraft used by the Janjaweed to strafe villages maybe?
LightExcalibur42: you're the military expert
Lollapuloosa: (mumbles.... hmmm yes) lol
LightExcalibur42: my opening statement ends, awating response
Morrison1640:
I believe a lot should be done to stop the genocide and hunger in
Africa. But my idea of what should be done will differ from what Louis
will tell you. You see louis's plan will probably involve a lot of your
tax dollars
Morrison1640: while mine will only inovle
Americans putting an idea into the heads of Africans. The truth is the
smartest Africans have left Africa. They need capitalism. We've been
sending billions of dollars for years now.
LightExcalibur42: its as if he doesn't even listen to what i say...
Morrison1640:
Capitalism will slowly but surely end the problems Africa faces today.
It doesn't matter how many live 8 concerts we have.
Morrison1640:
Africa will not change unless a drastic move is made....the idea of
capitalism is the only thing that will save Africans
LightExcalibur42: did you even read my statement???
BimmerPhile M3: *snickers*
Morrison1640: didnt get a chance to read the first statement...sorry for the assumption
LightExcalibur42: 10 deep breaths...
LightExcalibur42: don't speak while angry...
LightExcalibur42: random acts of kindness...
LightExcalibur42: I forgive the assumption, though I don't understand its source
LightExcalibur42: perhaps explaining the definition of a libertarian would help you
Morrison1640:
we should have made sure our opinions differed on the issue...but it
being "secret" a bonus question....would have made it hard
Lollapuloosa: So no one has any solutions to the genocide problems in central africa or Sudan?
LightExcalibur42: Bigger military.
Morrison1640: look, we're in a war...we have our own problems for now
LightExcalibur42: I support an enlarged military.
BimmerPhile
M3: My honest opinon of what to do -- not our responsibility. We are
the country that we are because we worked for it and they could be our
equals too if they just put some effort into improving their own
country.
LightExcalibur42: But that can't be done quickly, so its not a solution
BimmerPhile M3: as for how to stop genocide, without large scale war there's nothing we can do
Lollapuloosa: So on one hand... neo libertarian says we should do something, and morrison states that we are too busy
Lollapuloosa: there are things we can do
Lollapuloosa: You dont need large amounts of troops to accomplish things any longer
Morrison1640:
well yea....there are things we can do..but I dont want to do them..I
want our making to be invested in making sure Americans are safe first
BimmerPhile M3: hear hear! Every other country worries about their own protection / prosperity first, why shouldn't we?
Morrison1640: want our money*
Lollapuloosa:
So using a B-1 or B-2 to hit targets in Sudan in one psychological
strike like shock and awe... that would some how make americans unsafe
Morrison1640: not using them to kill terrorists?
Morrison1640: yes
Lollapuloosa: We arnt using all of them to hit terrorist morrison
Morrison1640: ok we are saving some
Lollapuloosa: B-2s are all in missouri, and arnt being used in real operations anywhere but Guam
Morrison1640: for the next batch of terrorsits
Lollapuloosa: ok so we should do nothing about it?
Morrison1640: ok, flying them overseas would cost money
BimmerPhile
M3: terrorists will only be taken out if 1) we completely isolate them
from the rest of the world or 2) wipe them off the face of the planet
Morrison1640: money that could be spent fighting our war
LightExcalibur42: terrorism is a tactic of fighting
LightExcalibur42: it can never ever be eliminated
LightExcalibur42: what we are fighting is islamofascism
BimmerPhile M3: I'm talking islamo-fascit terrorist
LightExcalibur42: an ideology
BimmerPhile M3: yes
LightExcalibur42: an ideology has to be fought in many ways, not just military
BimmerPhile M3: not entirely true
Lollapuloosa: Look... a no fly zone over sudan.... using an aircraft carrier already there... think please
BimmerPhile M3: how did a no fly-zone help Iraq in the past decade though?
Morrison1640: ok Im done...
Lollapuloosa: Were Iraqi jets flying there?
BimmerPhile M3: no, but their society didn't seem to benefit at all
Morrison1640: ill talk to you guys later
Lollapuloosa: the point would be to shoot down all planes being used to strafe villages
Morrison1640 has left the room.
Later:
LightExcalibur42: A libertarian is a capitalist who takes the concept into all fields of policy
Morrison1640: yea well, i wasnt aware of your conversion
LightExcalibur42: do you have Alzheimers?
Morrison1640: *
Morrison1640: dont think so
LightExcalibur42: i have logs of every conversation we have ever had
LightExcalibur42: the number of times i have told you that i am a libertarian is quite high.
| | |
| Because I'm Too Lazy for a Real Post (Again):
Everything the US does is wrong.
What should we do about a repressive regime?
Option
1) Military Aid. Obviously wrong. We are providing the weapons that
kill the innocent. See Israel, Turkey, Columbia, Reagan-era Iraq, etc.
Option 2) Economic Aid. Wrong. We are financially propping up the regime. See Egypt, Indonesia, etc.
Option
3) Humanitarian Aid. Still Wrong. By relieving the regime of its
financial duty to feed its people, we free up their money for military
uses. See Afghanistan, where the US supported the Taliban by providing
$43 million in humanitarian aid in exchange for the Taliban not
exporting Heroin, thus sacrificing 12 million women to the alter of the
failed War on Drugs.
Option 4) Trade / Constructive Engagement.
Wrong. This is merely an excuse for US corporations to profit off of
the regime's repression of its own people. See China and Reagan-era
South Africa.
Option 5) Economic Sanctions. Wrong. The economic
sanctions in Iraq have killed 6,000 people a month for the past 11
years, or nearly 800,000 victims of US foreign policy.
Option 6)
Military Attack. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! War! What is it
good for? Absolutely nothing! See every military conflict that the
United States has every engaged in. (Caveat: There may be a possible
exception for the US Civil War, which will be considered obviously
justified if you are talking to any white person born in the former
Confederacy.)
Option 7) The Prime Directive. Wrong. It is
intolerable for the most powerful nation in history to sit by and do
nothing while thousands die. It probably stems from a racist lack of
concern for people of color of persons of other religions. See Rwanda,
Bosnia (not to be confused with Kosovo, which falls under Option 6,
above).
More of this here. | | |
| Because I'm Too Lazy for a Real Post:
Your #1 Match: INTJ
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The Scientist
You have a head for ideas - and you are good at improving systems.
Logical and strategic, you prefer for everything in your life to be organized.
You tend to be a bit skeptical. You're both critical of yourself and of others.
Independent and stubborn, you tend to only befriend those who are a lot like you.
You would make an excellent scientist, engineer, or programmer. |
Your #2 Match: INTP
|
The Thinker
You are analytical and logical - and on a quest to learn everything you can.
Smart and complex, you always love a new intellectual challenge.
Your biggest pet peeve is people who slow you down with trivial chit chat.
A quiet maverick, you tend to ignore rules and authority whenever you feel like it.
You would make an excellent mathematician, programmer, or professor. |
Your #3 Match: ISTJ
|
The Duty Fulfiller
You are responsible, reliable, and hardworking - you get the job done.
You prefer productive hobbies, like woodworking or knittings.
Quiet and serious, you are well prepared for whatever life hands you.
Conservative and down-to-earth, you hardly ever do anything crazy.
You would make a great business executive, accountant, or lawyer. |
Your #4 Match: ISTP
|
The Mechanic
You are calm and collected, even in the most difficult of situations.
A person of action and self-direction, you love being independent.
To outsiders yous eem impulsive, surprising, and unpredictable.
You are good at understanding how all things work, except for people.
You would make an excellent pilot, forensic pathologist, or athlete. |
Your #5 Match: ENTJ
|
The Executive
You are a natural leader - with confidence and strength that inspires others.
Driven to succeed, you are always looking for ways to gain, power, knowledge, and expertise.
Sometimes you aren't the most considerate person, especially to those who are a bit slow.
You are not easily intimidated - and you have a commanding, awe-inspiring presence.
You would make a great CEO, entrepreneur, or consultant. |
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Your Political Profile
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Overall: 65% Conservative, 35% Liberal
|
Social Issues: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal
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Personal Responsibility: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal
|
Fiscal Issues: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal
|
Ethics: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal
|
Defense and Crime: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal
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