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Original: 1/24/2007 1:18 AM
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Wednesday, January 24, 2007
 

Rome Sweet Home

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My Rosary and NAB

Those who know me, or who have read my writings over the past few years, are well aware of the bitter hatred I had for the Roman Catholic Church. As far as I was concerned, they were idolatrous apostates whose Mass was nothing short of witchcraft. I was raised in a home of anti-Romanists (my mother was raised Catholic and graduated from Catholic school), and at age 18 I subscribed to a breed of Calvinism that was at complete enmity with the Catholic Church.

Over the past year, though, many of you watched as I attempted to deal with various Catholic, Orthodox, and Calvinist distinctives. We debated the Papacy, Marian doctrines, Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, purgatory, the Apocrypha, and traditions such as Lent and Ash Wednesday. At the time, I thought I did quite well. Honestly, I felt as if my arguments were sound, my grasp of church history was adequate, and my refutations were sufficient. I no longer believe this to be the case.

Actually, my skepticism started with a rather simple question: Where would I have attended church during the first 1,500 years of church history? This question, posed by Jargon, has haunted me every day since. Given my Calvinist distinctives, which church would have claimed me as one of their own? Which church father would identify with my protestant doctrines? Why do I feel spiritually disconnected from the first 1,500 years of the church?  These questions, and many others, were the center of my spiritual reflection since that day.

Much of it also boiled down to a question I had been very fond of asking others during debates: by what standard? That question was the clincher in virtually any theological debate. It forced my opponents to grapple with the concept of authority vs. autonomy. Problem was that this question turns out to be a smoking gun in the case against Protestantism. By what standard do we deem one worldview Christian and another non-Christian? The Bible? By what standard do we deem one interpretation of the Bible to be the Christian worldview while excluding another interpretation? Furthermore, by what standard do we deem one book canonical and another extra-biblical? By what standard? Who’s authority? Where did they get it from? How is their conclusion binding?

When all was said and done, Van Tilian apologetics backfired, Bahnsen's theonomy backfired, and North’s postmillennialism backfired. Sure, we must presuppose the Christian worldview, but whom or what has the authority to determine what the Christian worldview is and what it isn't? Sure, it is God's law or autonomy, but whom or what has the power to accurately and authoritatively declare what God's law means and how it ought to be applied? Sure, the Church will triumph on earth, but the idea that this will happen amongst various rival denominations (religions) is pie-in-the-sky. Each of these doctrines, regardless of their adherents insisting otherwise, lead to one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church; and this is certainly nowhere to be found among the protestant religions.

In the end, regardless of all my discussion and research, none of this would be happening were it not for the diligent prayer of a few devout Roman Catholics. Mysterium, his wife Kmom, and the Crusader twins prayed for my family on a regular basis. They were always willing to speak with me about questions and concerns. They even sent books for me to read and recommended others, most notably St. Fracis de Sales Catholic Controversy, the book that radically changed the way I look at the protestant religion, Calvinism in particular. But most importantly, they were patient with me. Were it not for their faith, prayer, persistence, and knack for longsuffering, I may not be making the declaration I am making this day. I could never fully explain how grateful I am for all that they have done.

Now, do I expect many of my readers to agree with my decision? No, quite the contrary. I am convinced that many will call me a heretic, some will make fun of my decision and slander me as a Romanist, some will say that I am tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine, some will blame my loose adherence to Federal Vision theology, and yet some may even question whether or not I was ever a Christian. I am quite prepared for this. What I am not prepared for is the response my wife and I will get from our closest friends, our family, and the church we have grown to love so much. Will it be easy? No. Regardless, I believe with all my heart that joining the Catholic Church is the right thing to do.

PS- I am attending morning Mass, tomorrow. I will not be partaking in communion, of course, but I will go forward for a blessing and make my intentions known to the priest. We will also begin looking for the Latin Mass nearest our home.

 Posted 1/24/2007 1:18 AM - 111 comments

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Jeremiah,

There's a swirl of things going on inside of me. Is it troubling? Yes. It is incredibly troubling that you waited until the day before your announcement, essentially, before you spoke with me.  I had no idea how long you had been struggling with this.  We've talked pretty much every week, if not multiple times per week.

I am praying for you. I'm praying for me, too. This is an incredibly sad moment.

Posted 1/24/2007 7:36 AM by antipelagian - reply

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That question; "where would you attend church at time X?" is absurd. Why does that trouble you? My answer to it is simply that God puts us in a particular time in history for a reason. We wouldn't have access to the same information had we lived at time X. Corporate sanctification is essential. Rome can't progress if it can't admit it's errors.

So now all of the sudden you accept all of Rome's doctrine on Mary?
Posted 1/24/2007 7:46 AM by dasack Xanga Premium Member - reply

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Jeremiah,

I would strongly encourage you to read through the book of Galatians again and ask yourself if this is compatible with Catholicism today.  Are you really willing to become a slave to their every whim of doctrine in order to be free from the Christian responsibility to rightly discern the Word of Truth?  Because, make no mistake about it, the Catholic Church is the Great Judaizer and they will bind your conscience more and more once you have accepted their circumcision.  I ask you, is anything about the Catholic Church currently Apostolic?  Would they not now condemn the writings of Paul and even, in places, of Peter if they could.

If I am harsh with you, it is because I have seen how deeply you love the peace of grace through faith that you have known and would not see you shackled again. 

Posted 1/24/2007 8:38 AM by Adeona - reply

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um.
well, i'm happy for you.
you and i are so SO very different now, but i struggle for faith in something, and a lot of times my decisions have not been understood (no worries- i'm not pretentious enough for wicca or the like. haha).

i'm not into dissecting The Word like yall seem to be. i'm not really even into The Word much at all. i love the archetypes, specifically the female ones. i am into what feels right- what feels good in your heart, what lets you open and see and feel and laugh with joy (FAITH BASED HEDONISM!).

so, if it does that, i'm happy for you. i was born and raised roman catholic, did the catholic school thing for 11 years. i have a mercurial relationship with the church, but it is beautiful. i hope it's what you want it to be.

and now you're going to be like "OMG THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS TO KIDS RAISED CATHOLIC?! HER?! RUN AWAY!"

:)

Posted 1/24/2007 8:53 AM by yeah_shes_trouble - reply

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May God bless you in this next step in your spiritual journey, Jeremiah.
Posted 1/24/2007 9:11 AM by JB_Fidei_Defensor - reply

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A. Dasak, I am not a Catholic apologist. I am still grappling with things. The last thing I want to do is engage people in debates over this matter. This being said, I will submit to the Church's teachings in order to understand, even the Marian doctrines.

Is the question absurd? I don't believe so. Regardless, it is one that my conscience would not allow me to forget or push aside.

B. Craig and Tai, I chose to speak to very few people about this matter. I spoke only with my wife, my father, and my pastor. I am well aware of what you, Parker and my other protestant friends would say were I to have brought this issue to the table. I know the arguments and the verses. In fact, that was the problem. Still, in love and fairness, I ought to have talked to you earlier about this.

C. Tai, I am not offended by your being harsh with me.

Posted 1/24/2007 9:58 AM by Paleocrat_etc - reply

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Jeremiah, I have followed your blog for a while now, rarely commenting (once?). I have really enjoyed the discussions that have developed and have learned much. I came into the Catholic Church this past summer (from a non-denom "bible church" childhood and a year in anglicanism as an adult). It hasn't been easy, but it's been very good. May God bless you and yours richly as you continue to follow Him.
Posted 1/24/2007 11:04 AM by online now chad_toney - reply

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"I would strongly encourage you to read through the book of Galatians again and ask yourself if this is compatible with Catholicism today."

Though I don't know you, I would like to point out that whilst the book of Galatians was indeed written to combat the sins of the Judaizers, their sin was not the Catholic faith. Their sin was requiring the Jewish ceremonial ritual of circumcision. So that you know the Catholic Church's teaching on circumcision, I will paste it below:

[The Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes and teaches that the legal prescriptions of the Old Testament or the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, holy sacrifices and sacraments, because they were instituted to signify something in the future, although they were adequate for the divine cult of that age, once our Lord Jesus Christ who was signified by them had come, came to an end and the sacraments of the new Testament had their beginning. Whoever, after the Passion, places his hope in the legal prescriptions and submits himself to them as necessary for salvation and as if faith in Christ without them could not save, sins mortally. It does not deny that from Christ's passion until the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been retained, provided they were in no way believed to be necessary for salvation. But it asserts that after the promulgation of the gospel they cannot be observed without loss of eternal salvation. Therefore it denounces all who after that time observe circumcision, the [Jewish] sabbath and other legal prescriptions as strangers to the faith of Christ and unable to share in eternal salvation, unless they recoil at some time from these errors. Therefore it strictly orders all who glory in the name of Christian, not to practise circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation.

[From the document, "Cantate Domino" (A.D. 1442), signed by Pope Eugene IV, from the 11th session of the Council of Florence (A.D. 1439, a continuation of the Council of Basle, A.D. 1431, and the Council of Ferrara, A.D. 1438)]

So to equate the Catholic faith with the lies of the Judaizers is simply inaccurate.

"Are you really willing to become a slave to their every whim of doctrine in order to be free from the Christian responsibility to rightly discern the Word of Truth?"

Submission to authority is something commanded of God. Is it slavery? Maybe, since even St. James called himself a "servant of God, and of our Lord Jesus Christ." Can you tell me where the Scriptures say that each individual layman has the responsibility of creating his own systematic set of doctrines from the Bible alone?

"I ask you, is anything about the Catholic Church currently Apostolic?"

Yes, everything about the Catholic Church is Apostolick. Nothing about the Protestant Church is Apostolick in any way whatsoever, excepting those areas where the Protestants borrowed from the Catholics, e.g. the canon, Trinitarian and Christological dogmas, &c.

"Would they not now condemn the writings of Paul and even, in places, of Peter if they could."

No they wouldn't and no they have not. Nor will they ever do so. Remember, it is the Protestants who rejected the teaching of St. James who contradicted the damnable lie of sola fide. If there is anyone who has condemned the Scriptures, it is the Protestants, who fashion their own canon after their own beliefs, rejecting the portions of the Scriptures with which they do not agree. And if you disagree, you are always free to start your own religion.
Posted 1/24/2007 12:31 PM by MysteriumFidei - reply

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"hat question; 'where would you attend church at time X?' is absurd. Why does that trouble you? My answer to it is simply that God puts us in a particular time in history for a reason."

And for now, are Protestants called to join the CREC? If a Baptist wanted to join your church, you wouldn't turn him away saying, "God put you in the Baptist church for a reason. Now stay there!" Would you?
Posted 1/24/2007 12:33 PM by MysteriumFidei - reply

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Jeremiah,

I respect your decision. I am not going to question your faith one iota, in fact, I don't see how anyone who did not take the Christian faith serious , would make such study a priority and be open to honesty with themselves and before God about such matters.

I never divulge private conversations I have with people, but I actually see the federal vision as a gateway into the RC church or if one can't accept that GO.  Reformed people really need to go back and check out the article Machens's Warrior Children. and prayerfully consider what it is doing to the church.  I could write a book on that alone my friend.

I examined and went through the same thing, causing me to leave the PCA behind many of the issues you cite or leave inuendo to.  My major point of disagreement comes to ekklesia vs. the institutional church, therefore my decision was different than yours. Depending how you define that and high church vs. low church will determine the path you are going to take. But in the end my opinion, nor anyone elses matter in this. If we depended on group opinion and popularity in how we make decisions for our family and our faith, we would be weak men. I am very unpopular, but that is of no concern to me, this is my life, no one elses.

You have a family, a family that has endured wrath from protestant brothers, and you as the priest of the home are responsible to God for their spiritual well-being. Romans 14 tells me I am wrong to judge you on this matter. I would pray that none of our brothers would put a yoke on you, and that the Spirit of God would minister to you and provide the answer to any lingering questions you may have..

You know how to contact me and like anyone who knows me can testify, the content therein remains private. I am not selling anything  . May the peace that passes all understanding flood your household Jeremiah.  John

Posted 1/24/2007 1:39 PM by johnnytravolta - reply

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I feel obligated to comment (due to the content of the post and the fact that you gave me a link.) First, a few humorous observations: (1) I do understand the stress this will cause, but I cannot help but laugh at the fact that this would have never happened if you had not written those polemical posts against Catholicism! I feel I may have played some minor role in this change of events by choosing to "team-up" with the Catholics during those infamous discussions. (2) You do realize that with you out of the way "the Catholic crew" (Mysterium, Kmom, and *many* others) will now gun even harder for me with a new member on their team and re-energized by their recent success! I respect your decision to avoid theological battles and excessive controversy at this time. After I announced my change of theological persuasion, I literally had to fight off the ranting and raving of over 200 of my subscribers! Godspeed, my friend!

The best thing to do right now is slip under the radar, read, worship and pray. There is really no point in debating the Reformed crew on xanga; Wright (I know several Protestants who became Catholic because of his writings) and Vanwedgeworth will have them in Rome before you know it anyway. Mercersburg and/or Federal Vision theology are certainly a departure from Protestantism and traditional Reformed theology if not stepping-stones to Rome. I certainly would agree that the Hodges are wonderful one-of-a-kind people, and I admire your ability to swallow the pride and overcome the "Romophobia" necessary to make the leap. Some here do not seem to understand the fact that Orthodox and Catholics believe that the dogmatic teachings of the Church and the truths of revelation delievered to men by the Church are accepted as the teachings of God demanding full assent because of their source, not assent in proportion with evidential considerations or rational arguments. Although I disagree with your decision, I'll lay the Orthodox-Catholic argument to rest for now. Hopefully, I'll manage call up you and Mysterium next weekend.
Posted 1/24/2007 1:49 PM by mr_jargon - reply

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WoW! May Jesus Christ be with you Jeremiah.  God bless you on your journey. 

And to your question: "Where would I have attended church during the first 1,500 years of church history? This question, posed by Jargon, .." is the same as St. Vincent Lerins:

"What has been preached everywhere, at all times, from the beginning".

Now is the time to heal the schisms of the Body of Christ and restore unity. Jeremiah, you have started on the way.

Posted 1/24/2007 1:56 PM by The_Spartan_philosopher - reply

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"The best thing to do right now is slip under the radar, read, worship and pray. There is really no point in debating the Reformed crew on xanga; Wright (I know several Protestants who became Catholic because of his writings) ... will have them in Rome before you know it anyway. Federal Vision theology are certainly a departure from Protestantism and traditional Reformed theology if not stepping-stones to Rome. I certainly would agree that the Hodges are wonderful one-of-a-kind people, and I admire your ability to swallow the pride and overcome the "Romophobia" necessary to make the leap."  (Edited)

 I cant believe that I agreed on quite a few points and the overall theme with Mr. Jargon.

 One of my dear friends who holds a doctorate in church history is so "Romophobic" , my question about whether taking the Eucharist out of its central position in worship had a spiritual effect on the church , sent him over the edge. Then to suggest the bible and preachers are temporal in countering his arguments , had we warned of blasphemy-which was so ridiculous. it made no sense. If we are with the Word why would we need the shadow, if we are in communion as the realized bride, we certainly have no need for the pointing to the bridegroom. Got to run.

Posted 1/24/2007 2:10 PM by johnnytravolta - reply

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Also, nice looking rosary! And make sure you eventually pick up a RSV:Catholic Edition, and a Douay-Rheims (I still need one of these myself).
Posted 1/24/2007 2:41 PM by online now chad_toney - reply

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Deo gratias!

Friend, you have my prayers.

Posted 1/24/2007 4:52 PM by Saint_Athanasius - reply

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This post made me very, very happy. I"m so glad you're becoming Catholic! I haven't left you comments in ages, but I've been reading your site and praying for you. I'll continue to keep you and your family in my prayers. Deo gratias!
Posted 1/24/2007 7:08 PM by AccidentalApologist - reply

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I must say I am saddened.  The man who has partial responsibility for my conversion to Calvinism now becomes a member of the Church of Rome.  I'd be a liar if I said I didn't see it quite a while ago.  God be with you, Jeremiah.

Posted 1/24/2007 10:56 PM by TylerHudgens - reply

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Congratulations!

It causes a good, warm feeling to see that another has fallen in love with the Bride of Christ, the holy Catholic liturgy, and the Divine Eucharist. May God bless you and guide you.

As for Marian doctrines, ask her! She knows them pretty well! Pray the rosary and meditate on the Incarnation. Mary will make perfect sense this way.

Posted 1/25/2007 12:23 AM by Ephraem_Syrus - reply

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WOW! I just don't know what to say....I pray this is just another "phase"! I've seen you change your mind over the years and debate each belief....but this.... I still love you of course but we definitely will never see eye to eye on this one. I will be praying for you!
Posted 1/25/2007 11:15 AM by ChadOverdose - reply

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"I pray this is just another 'phase'!"

It is another phase just like the Catholic Church is a "phase" in the history of Christianity.

"[W]e definitely will never see eye to eye on this one."

Never say never...
Posted 1/25/2007 11:37 AM by MysteriumFidei - reply

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as a convert myself, i feel overjoyed that you have made this decision!

sometimes the reactions of others will be the hardest part... but dont let it dissuade you from where the Lord wants you to be.

PEACE BE WITH YOU!

Posted 1/25/2007 11:47 AM by madam_librarian - reply

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Chad,

I understand that we will never see eye to eye on this one. I also promise that I will not push my beliefs when I am visiting your home. I also still love you very much. You are a great friend, and one that I wish I could spend more time with. Thanks for the prayers.

As for the phases, I was a....

Calvinist - 10 years

Preterist (denying the rapture) - 10 years

Theonomist (God's law is binding) - 9 years

Presuppositionalist - 9 years

Conditionalism/annihilationism - 8 years

Charismatic - 10 years (spoke in tongues in 96)

Protestant - Most all of my life. 

Overall, at least since I first confessed Christ in 1996, I've done well at avoiding major theological paradigm shifts. The few things that could be defined as theoligical "phases" would my adherance to Federal Vision theology, congregationalism (which I was never fully convinced of), denial of the charismatic gifts in the modern church, and that the sacraments were nothing more than empty ordinances. I held each of these for less than one year's time. Outside of these examples, I am hard-pressed to recall anything that would be considered a theological phase. 

PS- Me needs a good dose of the Miller High Life (the champagne of beers) and blind baseball.

Posted 1/25/2007 11:54 AM by Paleocrat_etc - reply

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Chad,

I understand that we will never see eye to eye on this one. . .


I'm assuming there are two Chad's commenting here...
Posted 1/25/2007 12:35 PM by online now chad_toney - reply

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Chad,

I understand that we will never see eye to eye on this one. . .

I'm assuming there are two Chad's commenting here...


NM...I see ya now.
Posted 1/25/2007 12:37 PM by online now chad_toney - reply

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And can we stop calling it the "Roman" Church, the "Church of Rome," "Romanism," The "Romish Church"?

Catholicism is more than just Rome. Most Protestants (and some Catholics) don't seem aware of this.

Posted 1/25/2007 1:54 PM by Ephraem_Syrus - reply

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