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Original: 8/14/2006 10:45 PM
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Monday, August 14, 2006

 Topics for Socrates Café - 8 - 14 - 06
Does evil exist?

Yes, unfortunately, I believe it does.  Why is a whole other question and I have no answer to that.  I suppose many things contribute to a person being evil, from nature to nurture, and the reasons for a person to become evil are probably as varied as people themselves.  I don't, however, believe in an evil being, as in Satan/the devil.  I wonder what creates an evil person, such as Jeffrey Dahmer, but I don't think such a person is possessed of a demon.

I am assuming that evil is a human failing because most animals, while behaving in ways we think are bad, do not deliberately do evil things.  Even a fox in a henhouse, killing more than it needs, is still following its inborn instinct.  There are several books out on the subject of evil people, one of which is "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck.  I read part of it but couldn't finish it.  But it is very illuminating, if you can get through it.  I am in some ways a little superstitious, and I avoid all expressions of evil in literature, movies, art work, etc.  

Also, I don't consider catastrophes, such as the hurricane, Katrina, or the tsunami that hit Indonesia and the other countries nearby was evil.  Earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados, and all such events are of nature.  It is possible that by changing the climate of the world by some of our collective actions, we have made it possible for more natural catastrophes to descend on us, but, again, not evil, as in the devil causing such events

Guess that about covers it for me.  I read the other posts and they seem to have done a more in-depth discussion of this.    

What is time?

This is such an interesting topic, and others have discussions that are more logical and scientific than mine, but here is what came up while I was thinking about spending my time here discussing this:

Time is mostly a construct of mankind.  True, there are elements of time that are part of the natural world, such as the various seasons, the changing star patterns in the sky during certain parts of the year.  A day is divided into daytime, and night time, and can even be divided further into forenoon and afternoon, by the climbing of the sun in the sky to its apex, then descending to the other horizon.

Still, clocks were developed to help monks and priests tell when to pray or sing a worship service.  Eventually, although man developed ways of breaking the day into hours to help make life easier for him, time has taken over and made man its slave.  Sometimes I try to imagine a day, week, month, year, without keeping track of the time, and it just boggles my mind.  Since I am retired, I am not so tied to the clock, but, still, it is hard to imagine living without all the measurements of the hours of the day, etc.

Imagine being a Native American several hundred years ago.  They got up when the sun came up (or when it got light, if it was cloudy), went about their lives - hunting for the men or the usual housekeeping stuff for the women - and went to sleep when the sun went down.  I heard someone say that for all our "civilization," we have lost something - our society as a whole, works more and has less leisure than the Native Americans did all those years ago.  The same can be said of other, so-called primitive people.  They know how to enjoy life - do we?

This has been fun, but - time to go.

Peace.

P.S. This may be sneaky ( I truly don't mean to be) but I'd like it if whoever reads this post would also read the one I posted yesterday - I'd like to have some comments on it.  Annie
 Posted 8/14/2006 10:45 PM - 20 views - 9 comments

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What "is" evil, in your understanding?
Posted 8/14/2006 11:34 PM by eddiefromhb - reply

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Great entry. I think evil is just missing the mark. I do not think most people set out with a goal of evil. Love to you, Judi
Posted 8/15/2006 4:10 AM by jassmine Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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RYC Eddie: I don't know that I can define evil in my understanding; I guess I just know it when I see it! jk. Sometimes it is overt, as in being cruel to animals, children, older people. Sometimes it is just the lack of caring or empathy for another's travails. Hitler, I think was evil, as have been other such leaders. It is the "undercover" evil people that we have to worry about. I don't know, frankly, I have these feelings in my mind but getting onto the screen/paper is difficult. There was a story in the book I spoke of previously, where the author describes a family whose son committed suicide with a rifle that was given to him as a Christmas gift. The Christmas following the suicide, they gave the same rifle to their second son! And, seemingly saw nothing wrong in doing so. The author used this story to describe a certain kind of evilness. That's as close as I can come, in words, to defining evil. I mean with great sincerity, the phrase, "deliver us from evil," when I say the Lord's Prayer. Sorry I can't be clearer. I think you wrote a great discussion of this on your site.

Love to you, Judi. Thanks for commenting.

Peace to everyone and everything in the universe.
Posted 8/15/2006 11:15 AM by anniemomz - reply

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It sounds like you're saying that sociopaths and psycopaths personify evil. They lack caring and compassion towards anyone, for lack of time and a better definition off the top of my head. But if we say that, it seems we overlook that our idea of evil is probably not theirs, meaning, their acts may be perfectly good to them. If we don't allow them this, mustn't we say they're doing someone else's evil work?

I guess I'm getting at relativism here. You can read my comments elsewhere for a few more thoughts. I'm trying to say that my good is probably someone else's "evil." My very existence seems to be "bad" in the eyes of some terrorists. If I don't allow them to have their own subjective ideas of good and evil, mustn't I say that they do the deeds of a greater force of good or evil (my God or their God?, but mustn't it be God or the Devil?) If I allow them their subjective good, can't I then allow them autonomy of their own beliefs?

Back to sociopaths, if the devil does not exist, leading them to do bad things, why are their deeds "evil?"

Posted 8/15/2006 12:22 PM by Simone_De_Beauvoir Xanga Premium Member - reply

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Is evil the disease or the symptom? I think most evil is a symptom of specific sins, such as greed or jealousy. And if a person has no founding in religion, or at least in a supported regimented training of how and why to behave in society, then they may not have the tools to deal with these sins and fall unwittingly into evil. How often do we read news stories of heinous acts and the criminal seems like a normal person who gives as their only excuse "what else was I supposed to do?" It truly amazes me that so many people no longer know wrong from right. Religion teaches what not to do. It gives guidelines and tools and reasons and incentives. Of course there are people who hide behind it, manipulate and use it to excuse their actions. Just as people abuse any privilege, any right, any opportunity. But without a guiding light, people become lost. And being lost, they know not how to act, lose perspective, live unhappy lives and act out of anger, frustration, fear and confusion. And thus are borne evil acts from normal people.

Annie, ryc, thanks. It's good to hear. People think that time heals wounds, and it can, but there is a fact that the last thing someone ever told you, whether it was 10 minutes ago or 10 years ago, that's what you remember about them. If they never have another conversation with you, how are you to ever know their opinion has changed? So for decades I believed that some people still thought I "wasn't good enough", since that was the last thing I ever heard.

Posted 8/15/2006 11:43 PM by DisposableSuperHero - reply

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I always like your way of philosophy! I do not think there is a right way or a wrong way. How do you think did native american's perceive time? Were they unaware of it or did they had a different attitude towards it?
Posted 8/16/2006 3:36 PM by Zeal4living Xanga True Member Xanga Lifetime Member - reply

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I like your way of expressing things. I have not heard from you everything alright? Judi
Posted 8/16/2006 4:22 PM by jassmine Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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Your post on time... a very good one. I liked it very much and how you gave examples of different times.
Posted 8/16/2006 4:38 PM by presentfool - reply

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RYC Disposable Superhero: Good discussion on evil. As stated before, I just don't know what causes it. Religion, as you stated can help; also if parents would take the time to discuss with their kids the right and wrong of things. I feel that a lot of the violence and increased drug use among young people is that their parents just haven't taken the time or opportunity to talk these things over with them. I know you and Mike have discussed whys and wherefores with your kids from day one.

Thanks to Judi, presentfool and zeal4living for your nice comments. Zeal, I don't know if the Native Americans marked time passing or if they just didn't care. Certainly, they had to know certain things about the changing seasons; when to move their camps, when the buffalo would be on the move, etc. But from what I've read about them (and the other native peoples) they spent a lot of time enjoying life. How many of us can say that?

Peace.
Posted 8/16/2006 6:00 PM by anniemomz - reply


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