His Master's VoiceCraig W. Blogging
About this Entry
Posted by: craigwbooth

Visit craigwbooth's Xanga Site

Original: 4/2/2008 4:38 PM
Views: 140
Comments: 5
eProps: 4

Read Comments
Post a Comment
Back to Your Xanga Site


Who gave the eProps?
2 eProps!2 eProps! 2 eProps from:
NotAllGoodPeopleGoToHeaven
wondering04


Wednesday, April 02, 2008
 

For the Joy, or, Instead of the Joy?

A friend of mine who works at Answers In Genesis wrote the following on his personal blog (http://whatdoesthescripturesay.com):

 

I’ve been blessed by Wuest’s word studies and commentary over the last few years. … It stated the second half of Hebrews 12:2 like this, “who instead of the joy then present with Him endured the Cross, despising the shame…” Which is strikingly different than the usual translation of “who for the joy set before Him endured the cross”.  (Tony Ramsek, March 23, 2008, http://whatdoesthescripturesay.com)

 

Tony goes on to explain how this translation of the Greek behind Hebrews 12:2 is a more natural lexical - theological fit with the rest of the Scriptures than other translations.  What motivated Jesus to die for us?  I find the clarity of other passages informative: His oft repeated love for His followers moved Him to sacrifice Himself and His desire to obey the Father caused Him to go to the cross.  He clearly did not succumb to the cross out of His own personal interests (Philippians 2:4-9), nor did He please Himself by going to the cross (Romans 15:3).  Therefore, whatever the best rendering of Hebrews 12:2, it must accommodate the plainly revealed motives of Jesus as discussed above. 

 

Coincidently, as I read this, I was also reading Henry A. Virkler’s excellent book, Hermeneutics: Principles and Processes of Biblical Interpretation.  Virkler, though not commenting specifically on Hebrews 12:2, confirms that other Scripture provides the genuine motivational impetus by which believers today should follow Jesus.  And it has less to do with attaining rewards (like personal joy and pleasure) but everything to do with our love of the Lord.

 

Peter asked the Lord, “We have left everything to follow you!  What then will there be for us?”  Jesus assured Peter that they would be amply rewarded for their service, but then went on to tell the Parable of the Laborers.  In this context it can be seen that Jesus’ story was a gentle rebuke to Peter, a rebuke of the self-righteous attitude which says, “See how much I have done (I was not unwilling to give up all and follow You as this young man was).  I should certainly get a large reward for my great sacrifice.”  Jesus was gently rebuking Peter for possessing the attitude of a hireling--“What am I going to get out of this?”--rather than recognizing that the motive for service in the kingdom is to be love.  (Virkler, page 165-166)

 

Certainly, with Jesus as our model to imitate, we should be serving not with an attitude of “What am I going to get out of this?” but “Am I loving God and others by my service?”  Rewards will surely sort themselves out in Heaven (whatever form those rewards will happen to take).  But our service on earth is to be consciously driven by a desire to please God (Hebrews 11:6, 13:16), our gratitude to Him for the salvation we receive (Hebrews 12:28), and our love for God and others (Matthew 22:36-40).  With regard to Hebrews 12:2, it would be a strange form of hermeneutics that would contradict all these passages so as to have the man, Jesus, motivated to serve primarily by His own self-interest in acquiring joy for Himself.  Jesus, as man and God, submitted to the Father in love, going to the cross humbly to serve Him and to gain the joy of salvation for us.  It is that servant’s heart of self-sacrificing loving humility that we are to mimic.

 

For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.  Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.  Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.  Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.  (2 Corinthians 5:14-18)

 

 Posted 4/2/2008 4:38 PM - 140 views - 5 comments

Give eProps or Post a Comment

5 Comments

Visit NotAllGoodPeopleGoToHeaven's Xanga Site!

```````

The (pagan) belief in immediate transit
of individual souls after death to a state
of perfect blessedness (heaven),
or to a state of continuous punishment
(hell), or to an intermediate state of
purification (purgatory) has greatly
weakened the expectation of Christ's
Coming."
-Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D.
Retired Professor of Theology,
Andrews University

 

``````

Posted 4/5/2008 3:46 PM by NotAllGoodPeopleGoToHeaven - reply

Visit craigwbooth's Xanga Site!

Dear NotAllGoodPeopleGoToHeaven:

Posts from you, and from other Jehovah's Witnesses, always presents a dilemma.  I love dialogue and interactive discussion about the Bible and about God.  But these type of posts (I have received a sufficient number that the unbroken pattern is obvious) are not dialogue, but hit-and-run posts.  They spout JW dogma (in this case unrelated to my original post), then, myself and others respond, but the JW poster never interacts.  I am well aware of JW dogma: Jesus is a lesser god, the Father created the universe--not the Son--for the Son did not have the power to do so, there is no such thing as an eternal and immortal spirit/soul of man, there is no heaven, eternal life is living on earth as an unmarried eunuch forever, neither Jesus nor the Father will ever live with or be seen by those living eternally on the earth as eunuchs, and eternal life on earth is only attainable by working for a thousand years in the Millennium and then passing a final test, the outcome of which is never known or guaranteed to the faithful.

Since no JW has ever engaged in an actual discussion on this blog forum, but only uses it as a platform to leave hit-and-run (and often off-topic) posts, I will block you from further access to this blog. 

May God (our Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit) deliver you from the ever-present fear of missing eternal life that accompanies the JW belief system and bring you to see the salvation possible through the true gospel of Jesus.

Posted 4/5/2008 7:04 PM by craigwbooth - reply

Visit craigwbooth's Xanga Site!

@NotAllGoodPeopleGoToHeaven - 

Dear NotAllGoodPeopleGoToHeaven:

Posts from you, and from other Jehovah's Witnesses, always presents a dilemma.  I love dialogue and interactive discussion about the Bible and about God.  But these type of posts (I have received a sufficient number that the unbroken pattern is obvious) are not dialogue, but hit-and-run posts.  They spout JW dogma (in this case unrelated to my original post), then, myself and others respond, but the JW poster never interacts.  I am well aware of JW dogma: Jesus is a lesser god, the Father created the universe--not the Son--for the Son did not have the power to do so, there is no such thing as an eternal and immortal spirit/soul of man, there is no heaven, eternal life is living on earth as an unmarried eunuch forever, neither Jesus nor the Father will ever live with or be seen by those living eternally on the earth as eunuchs, and eternal life on earth is only attainable by working for a thousand years in the Millennium and then passing a final test, the outcome of which is never known or guaranteed to the faithful.

Since no JW has ever engaged in an actual discussion on this blog forum, but only uses it as a platform to leave hit-and-run (and often off-topic) posts, I will block you from further access to this blog. 

May God (our Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit) deliver you from the ever-present fear of missing eternal life that accompanies the JW belief system and bring you to see the salvation possible through the true gospel of Jesus.

Posted 4/5/2008 7:06 PM by craigwbooth - reply

Visit wondering04's Xanga Site!

LOL, I tend to just delete their posts, and yet I like to know when they come around for then if I find them on another person's site then I can let them know the source. This is a new name. They do tend to switch their names periodically to get past the blocks. I am trying to read your post, but today has been a very tough day, and I can't think seriously so I have to come back to read it, all I can athing of is "It is the best of times, it is the Wuest of times."  Sorry, it really has been one of those days.

Heather

Posted 4/5/2008 10:09 PM by wondering04 Xanga True Member Xanga Lifetime Member - reply

Visit craigwbooth's Xanga Site!

@wondering04 - Sorry to hear you are going through a tough time.  If my post is confusing, it is partly because I start in the middle of the discussion.  If you read Tony's blog entry on Hebrews 12:2 first, it might make more sense.  Essentially, his blog states that an alternative rendering of Hebrews 12:2 is is that Jesus, even though He despised the shame of the cross, instead of clinging to the joys and glory that were His in Heaven, left Heaven so that we might be saved.  This is a viable alternative reading because it does no violence to the Greek and much more closely mirrors similar comments in other Bible passages.

Blessings.

Craig

Posted 4/6/2008 1:48 PM by craigwbooth - reply


Choose Identity
(?)
 
Give eProps (?)
Post a Comment
Add Link | Preview HTML comment help 
Profile Pic:
Default  |  Choose »  (?)



Back to craigwbooth's Xanga Site!
Note: your comment will appear in craigwbooth's local time zone:
GMT -05:00 (Eastern Standard - US, Canada)