You make a good point. But sin is always a choice, no matter what type of sin.

Sure, sin is a choice, the same way that wearing clothes is a choice. Hypothetically, I guess we could all stop wearing clothes, but uh...well, you can start that trend. ;)

The fact is, Jesus died as a way of absolving those sins so that we can all have a relationship with God in spite of our shortcomings. So this concept of gays as a special class of sinner - that, if you will God hates gays - doesn't really make sense to me.

Anyone want to take a gander at this one? Is there more going on that I'm missing (very possible!)?

See, I don't believe that gays necessarily choose to be gay. There is no logic whatsoever in becoming gay. "Hey, I know! Let's be ostracized from society and called the worst sorts of names by a religion that supposed to be about love!" As I said before, when did you choose to like guys (or girls, as the case may be)? Through my experiences with numerous gay men and women, I can no longer hold to the belief that they are choosing this. I believe that they are acting out the person that God created them to be. And don't bring up the Levitical law argument. According to Levitical law, women should not be a part of this conversation. Nor should you be keeping milk and meat in the same fridge. I can Biblically sell my wife and/or daughter into slavery. Oh, and that shirt you're wearing? Better hope it's pure cotton. If it's a mixed fiber we can stone you to death.

Romans 1:18-28

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

First, the wrath of God is coming down on unrighteous people and those "who suppress the truth in unrighteousness" Paul then says these people are without excuse because God has revealed Himself through creation, (I guess that means He created the world. Probably in six days like He said) Therefore God has removed some of His influence and common grace from these people, in one part Paul says they "became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened." These people now worship things in creation rather than the Creator. So God further removed Himself from them allowing "the lusts of their hearts" to take over. So women were with women and "men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." The bible clearly says homosexuality is a choice (given over to the lusts of their hearts), and homosexuality is a sin (receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due) Yes divorce is a sin, yes marriage is screwed up in our society today, but that is no excuse to encourage more sin. Genesis 2:24 says, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." God says marriage is a between one man and one woman. All we are trying to do is protect what God has instituted.

So here's my thing:  Why is it that we are choosing this sin over all others? If there is a fundamentalist out there who can answer this without resorting to a literalist interpretation, I will be amazed.

There is no “scale” for sin. While certain sin carries with it more consequences, all sin is equal in the eyes of God. Anyone who believes differently is wrong. But it is true that our society has deemed certain sins as being “worse” than others. Family is the most sacred institution in our society. It is for this reason that sins that concern the family (affairs, sex before marriage, abortions, homosexuality, child/spousal abuse, etc.) are deemed “worse” than other sins by both Christians and non-Christians alike. I’m not saying that this is right. It’s not right. But it happens, because we’re all prone to sin.

 

“Why is it that we are choosing this sin over others?” Homosexuality is a current topic in the U.S. Within the last few years, U.S. courts have seen many cases involving homosexuality. Many bills involving homosexuality have been introduced into U.S. legislatures. There is currently a strong push to legalize gay marriage. So Christians are pushing back. Christians did not suddenly chose to fight against gay marriage. The situation simply presented itself. You might argue “if all sin is the same, shouldn’t we be fighting just as hard against other sin, like gossip, for instance?” That would be an excellent argument. Christians should spend just as much time fighting against gossip. It’s wrong that we don’t. On the other hand, if there was a chance that the U.S. Supreme Court was going to officially declare that the Constitution gave us the express right to gossip (claiming it acceptable behavior), I might fight against it a little harder than I am currently.

 

As I said before, sin is a choice (if it wasn't a choice, then how did Jesus manage to make it 33 years without sinning?). And if you are going to believe that homosexuality is a sin, then you have to believe that homosexuality is a choice. I agree that it does not seem to be the most logical decision. Sin usually isn’t. My sin often doesn’t make sense, since I end up hurting myself and others in the long run. Choosing homosexuality does seem to be a little different, though, since the consequences are so adverse. But just because it’s not the most prudent choice doesn’t mean that it’s not a choice. There was a time when having children out of wedlock would cause one to be “ostracized from society and called the worst sorts of names by a religion that[’s] supposed to be about love.” But people still did it. The same goes for being a drunkard, having an affair, beating one’s children, and a number of other sins. But people still commit those sins. As well, remember that Satan is crafty. He has tricked all of us more than once. I have a friend who is gay. I don’t think that he woke up one day and said, “How can I lose the respect of my family and friends (by the way, I made sure to let him know that I love him as much now as I did before he told me he was gay), face ridicule from society and  make my life harder overall? I know, I’ll become gay!” I don’t think he consciously chose this. I think that he allowed Satan into a small area of his life. And Satan took over more and more until he had a foothold. And once he had that foothold, he was able to convince my friend that he was gay. The choice was in allowing Satan control. That’s the way it is with a lot of sin.

 

Owen, to answer your question, no, I did not chose to be attracted to the opposite sex. That’s the point. God created me to like the opposite sex – it’s not a choice, it’s the natural order of things. When God creates us to be a certain way, we don’t chose to be that way. We are that way. When we chose something different, we are going outside of God’s plan. That’s called sin.

 

On a side note, Josh, I don’t really think that it is accurate to analogize between sin and wearing clothing. Yes, both are a choice. But the similarity ends there. Sin is wrong. Wearing clothing is not. God makes that clear in Genesis 3:21. In fact, I think it’s ironic that you (randomly?) chose to analogize sin to wearing clothing when wearing clothing appears to be a consequence of sin.

 

Both Owen and Josh make some excellent points. Homosexuality is no more a sin than gossip or lying or doubting God and we shouldn’t treat it as such. But we have to remember that it is a sin, and we are not supposed to accept sin in any form. Just because we wrongly accept other sin does not give us an excuse to accept homosexuality. Please do not get me wrong, we should love homosexuals just as much as we love anyone, because we are all sinners. We can still love the sinner and hate the sin. For anyone reading this, please make sure that you are doing that.  

owen, i am behind you 100%. i may not agree with homosexual marriages in the church, but i am not going to go after someone because i don't agree with the way they live, i have many friends that are sexually active, i have roomates that are, and though i don't agree, as a person, they are still dear to me. their sexual life, though is a concern to me, isn't something that i think about all the time. eventually, people will begin to see people who are gay without the title. homosexuality is a sin, yes, but all sins are equal before God, and i am no cleaner in God's eyes then someone who is gay. my sins are just not in the face of society, and my sins, unfortunately, are more accepted, and that is what scares me. it's ok for me to sin, just as long as it isn't a gay sin......wow, that sounds wrong. and it should. and if homosexuals are in fact "lost", then how are we, as the sheperds of Jesus' flock, the fishers of men, His children, how are we going to reach them if we keep pushing them as far away as we can? if gay unions are allowed, a fad won't begin, teenagers won't all the sudden want a gay union.
everything i want to say has pretty much already been said, but why do people yell so loudly about gay marriage when they won't really be affected, when there are issues and bills that need attention and money and focus and the church, but they aren't getting attention because someone doesn't want "gays" to be able to get married. i don't know about you guys, but i want to hear the church on the news making noise about something else. let's pick our battles people.
deb