Josiah Quant's Facebook profile
About this Entry
Posted by: kippy_zero

Visit kippy_zero's Xanga Site

Original: 4/1/2008 2:22 AM
Comments: 0
eProps: 0

Read Comments
Post a Comment
Back to Your Xanga Site


Tuesday, April 01, 2008
 

Forgiveness = ?

I am struggling with an aspect of forgiveness.  How does one know that he has truly forgiven someone?  Saying, "I forgive you" means NOTHING to me.  I can say lots of stuff.  I can say lots of great ideas at Bible study; I can say all the Sunday school answers.  I can say I love God and that I'd follow Him to the ends of the earth.

But it's meaningless if I keep saying it.  There must be some action required to prove that I mean what I say.  Jesus said that a tree is known by its fruit (Luke 6:43-45, Matthew 12:33). So, I would think someone's actions would be able to authenticate their forgiveness. Saying “I forgive you” doesn't count as an action. There has to be a bigger, more obvious fruit that would tell me the truth about forgiveness.

That's the problem I'm dealing with. I'm not certain I know what that fruit looks like. I thought I knew—and maybe I do know—but I've interacted with some Christians who seem to have a different view. I don't agree with them all the way, but I'm human and maybe I'm the one who is wrong. (Maybe we both are, who knows?)

To me, forgiveness is not a “been there, done that” type deal. Since I like simple analogies, I'll say it's similar to an addiction of any kind. Your goal is “to quit” doing whatever it is you're addicted to. You set a goal, seven days. When you accomplish that, you go for fourteen. Then Twenty one. Then three months. Then six months. You make it six months and go “I QUIT! I DID IT!” and, to celebrate, you go out and take part in that previous addiction. Your friends come up to you and say, “wait, didn't you quit doing that?” “Oh, yeah. I quit. I went six months. I did it!” That's stupid; you haven't quit! So you stayed away from it for six months, but you're back again. You didn't quit it all the way. Now, maybe your definition of quitting is going for six months then you can do it once and then maybe go six months more...but that's not really “quitting” exactly*. That's lowering your consumption of your addiction. Either define your words or change your actions, but don't think you've really quit. Relating back to forgiveness, you don't “forgive” someone and then tell them (and yourself) you did it and that you don't hold anything against them and you're all cool, but in six months something reminds you of that offense and you get mad all over at them for it. Have you really, really forgiven them?

I guess my response is the same as someone who said they quit their addiction but continued to do it sometime afterward. Depends on your definition. You may have quit for a period of time, but you can't say you've “quit” now (assuming by quitting you meant removing it completely from your life).* So, no, you haven't really forgiven them. It's a continual process. There may be a turning point where it becomes easier for you to actually forgive them just like after you've quit your addiction for several years it often becomes easier to continue than when you started—but it is a continual process.

*(I suppose I should grant that quitting an “addiction” may only mean not doing it all the time or everyday. I guess I am thinking more harmful addictions: drugs, pornography, unforgiving spirits, etc.—things that should be removed completely from the life of anyone who claims to be a follower of Christ. If you are thinking of quitting an addiction to shoe shopping, texting on your cell phone, or video games, then my analogy won't work. Those things, in moderation and their basic form, are not inherently evil (though shoe shopping comes close ). You can play W.O.W. a few hours on weekends and I wouldn't call you an unhealthy addict.)

It's like “being” a Christian—when you prayed and asked Christ to come into your life you may say you “got saved” or whatever, but it's what you do that makes it real (James 2:14-26). You did not pray and, poof, you're a Christian. You did it! No, you've just started to follow Christ. You need to keep following the entire way. You never get to say “I did it! I quit my sin!” until your dead. Not only did you “get saved” back then but you “are saved” today. My favorite verse in Isaiah (43:25) says, “I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.” I love it—it's all present tense! God is willing to blot out my sins when I repent; He won't ever bring them up as a charge against me since I've asked for repentance. He's not going to let it get between me and Him and our relationship, and I can't thank Him enough for that. When I step back and think about that, I get excited (and you should too if you're a child of God)!

So, I'm trying to take that model of a perfect forgiveness and apply it to my life and toward others, as I'm commanded to do (Ephesians 4:32). This is where it has gotten fuzzy with the previously mentioned group of people in paragraph three: how does one act in a forgiving manner and continue to love a brother/sister in Christ when it would appear, to them, that the brother/sister has given up on doing any repairs to the now broken friendship? This friend came to me and explain part of the situation and spent fifteen minutes defending themself and making it clear that the real problem was the other person (they didn't use those terms, but that's what it sounded like to me) and then finished with, “but, Joey, I have forgiven them.” My heart sank when I heard the last part, which is what inspired this post in the first place. I told them that, to be honest, it wasn't easy for me to believe that they had really, truly “forgiven” their friend after they brought up so many offenses their friend had committed months ago. (In the “Love Chapter” it talks about love keeping “no record of wrongs”--1 Corinthians 13:5) I can't judge hearts, but from the tone, attitude, and words used I just couldn't actually believe this person had forgiven them no matter who much I wanted to believe that. I believe they thought they had and I believe that my friend wants to forgive their friend.

I'm not sure I said the right thing, but I told them that I had trouble seeing the forgiving attitude. From what I could see, the two of them ignored each other and avoided each other at all costs. I brought up the two passages from Matthew (5:23-24, 18:15-22) about having something against your brother and vice versa. In both cases, whether you're against him or he's against you, it's your responsibility to make it right. (I've never enjoyed that part myself because, um, I like to pass the blame too .) They told me that they had tried but the other person didn't listen. “Now it's between them and God...” I believe they put it. I told them that I thought they should not stop their, but continue to try to make it right. Encourage them, help them, be a friend to them like they were before this mess.

Their response was interesting to me. They said they could not “encourage their behavior/actions” (not direct quote but the same meaning as what they said) and, apparently, being friendly or giving high fives or hugs or, dare I say, talk to each other was wrong for them to do until this person repented.

But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven...if you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:43-49)”

I guess I didn't agree with that attitude. The passage we had been talking about in Bible study earlier that week became so loud in my head it was almost audible to outsiders “Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in LOVE. Make EVERY effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace...” (Ephesians 4:2-6; I only quoted v2-3, but read the whole section anyway ) I mean, I can understand the idea of hanging out with a “good crowd” so as not to become like them, but I have a hard time believing this is quite like that. Jesus went to the sickest, most perverted people—He ate dinner with them and hung out with them!—because they needed help. He didn't wait for them to come to Him. He told us to go out and do the same.

What's embarrassing is, these aren't non-Christians fighting...these are my brothers and sisters who are very, very dear to me and it has broken my heart for months now (though since Feb-early March it was gotten significantly worse). I've lost sleep over it, I've fasted about it, and I've pray to God in tears over it (and continue to do so and beg you all to do the same as you think of it). By this time my friend (I think) had enough of me and decided they “had to go” and our conversation ended with what seemed like little change of anything. They “said” a lot of nice, Spiritual things and it sounded good for the most part. It just wasn't accompanied by appropriate actions (at least, what I had thought to be appropriate actions). Maybe they went through the motions of forgiving and letting go—and just took it back later. I don't know—I don't really know anything come to think of it.

So, if you still have time after reading all of that and would like to share what I'm missing I would be glad to hear it. Do not ask me who is involved, how many, where, what, and why because I'm not interested in gossip. I'm simply using this story to help illustrate what I'm struggling with. I want to know:

A) What, do you think, is the fruit of forgiveness (or unforgiveness) that I'm looking for?

B) Where am I right/wrong with my current understanding of forgiveness?

C) When is giving up on a friendship (among believers) over a dispute “the right thing to do”?

If it's too personal or you'd rather email it to me, that's fine.

Oh, and please don't forget to pray. Lord's will be done!

 Posted 4/1/2008 2:22 AM - 0 comments

Give eProps or Post a Comment

Choose Identity
(?)
 
Give eProps (?)
Post a Comment
Add Link | Preview HTML comment help 
  • Say it with Minis! (?)

Profile Pic:
Default  |  Choose »  (?)



Back to kippy_zero's Xanga Site!
Note: your comment will appear in kippy_zero's local time zone:
GMT -06:00 (Central Standard - US, Canada)

Josiah Quant's Facebook profile