Si Triton me sicciorem hac re haberes non potest, sopionem meum sugat!Who does this pathetic moron think he is to challenge the army of the living God! (1 Sam. 17: 26)
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Original: 2/23/2007 12:20 PM
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Friday, February 23, 2007
 

This is the first of the articles that I'm showing you. Preacher, Jon read my articles for the Ghost of Ben Franklin then asked if I would do one on the exact same subject specifically for Willowbrook. This was the result. I'll put up the G.o.B.F. article this weekend. for now: Enjoy! 

All through January our sermons here at Willowbrook were about the proper way to treat other Christians who try to follow Jesus but do not necessarily share all our beliefs. We continued that discussion into February with how to treat each other, that is the subject Jon had asked me to write about. I would like to say this was a totally unsolicited work, but that is not truly the case, however.

What I've loved most about Willowbrook is what Jon likes to call our "multidenominationalism." We have here a "salad bowl" of Catholics and protestants, As well as independents and just about every denomination around.

We can do this because what we have in common far outweighs our differences. We read the same Bible, believe in the same Jesus, and love the same God. The only question I have for you to think about today, is just how strong does what we have in common override that in which we disagree?

One particular example of what I'm asking is with the issue of music. I know several churches here in the Greater Rochester area that do not believe it is "obedient worship" to use musical instruments during worship services. Would you say they can still go to heaven with this belief?

My experience suggests that most of you who would not say yes, would at least say that it's not your place to judge. I personally don't think either of these is a wrong answer.

Another example was a recent debate in one bible class over my personal disbelief that the six days of creation were meant to be taken as literal days. Do you think this doubt would keep me out of heaven? If you said yes then I'm glad that it's God that will judge me and not you.

Finally, (And here is the big one.) there is a belief among many Christians that homosexuality is not a sin. Is anyone who believes that in danger of perdition's flames?

Before I go on I should explain that I do not believe that people who've been taught that homosexuality is a sin should be forced to accept it as an acceptable lifestyle. Nor do I believe that they should lose their rights to lobby for what they believe.

That is a mistake which is very common to the less tolerant wing of the gay lobby, which is not shared by most.

But in the same breath, I do believe that Christians should not be yelling in to Bull horns on street corners that gays and lesbians are going to hell. Nor do I believe that all Homosexuals and Christians who do not share such hard-line views on homosexuality should be run out of our churches.

I think that if anyone on this earth can sit down and discuss our differences like adults it should be Christians. Unfortunately that is not the view of the world I most often see.

That having been said, many have found ways to justify going after homosexuals by pointing to selected verses in the Bible. However the case that "Homosexuality is so repugnant" is really not as strong as they claim.

Even with Sodom and Gomorrah the most used reference in the Bible. We are never told anywhere in Genesis that these two city/states were destroyed because of homosexuality. What we are told is that Lot and his family were to only righteous people in the area. The reason that some get away with making that claim is because there was a minor homosexual component to the story of Lot and the two visitors.

There is in fact an absurdity in using any Old Testament verse to apply to Christians. That is the fact that there are so many laws there, that do not apply to Christians.

  • Take for example Leviticus chapter 19 verse 27: Jews are told to not cut the hair above their ears, nor to trim their beards. (This is why some sects of Jews look so similar to each other)
  • Also there is a whole list of foods that are forbidden in Lev. chapter 11. Like chicken and pork for example. (When was the last time you had a BLT)
  • There are laws about the Sabbath and bathing that many christian do not follow. (Though I think some should)

    I could go on so much so, that the question then becomes: "Why pick on Homosexuals and not follow all this mess?"

    Jon recently gave me the most original argument that I've heard in a long time. That anything the Old Testament labeled as "disgusting" to the Jews should not be done by Christians either.

    Though I applaud his original thinking there are two problems I have with this argument:

    First is the fact that the Bible does not say this. The second is a look at seafood: According to Lev 11:9-12 the only seafood we're allowed to eat is fish. In fact all other sea creatures are labeled as "disgusting" Would he reject those of us who like lobster with the same zeal? Clearly not.

    The simple fact is that the first five books of the Old Testament were not written to Christians in such a direct way. They were written to the children of Israel to rid them of their diseases and to make them a more acceptable people to produce Jesus. Using them in this way is dishonest.

    Unlike the Old Testament, the New Testament was actually written to Christians, so these should make for a much stronger argument. But it still has huge problems. Starting with the fact that Jesus and arguably Paul never directly condemned Homosexuality. According almost all scholars the Greek word most commonly used for "Homosexual" in the first century was "Paiderasste." As evidence this is true one can point to the literature that has survived from then. (There is a lot.)

    Now I'm not saying that the case could not easily be made for it including "Paiderasste" in the list of sins. I'm just saying that it's a weak case. Certainly too weak too base a whole doctrine on. In fact if this doctrine is concrete then why did Jesus or Paul not simply forbid "Paiderasste" outright?

    Remember those bracelets that said W.W.J.D.? "What Would Jesus Do" We need to start asking ourselves, "What Would Jesus Really Do?"

    Would he support extremism or would he spread love and forgiveness? Would he gripe about alcohol or would he focus on his priorities? And yes: Would he dump on Homosexuals, or treat them like valuable human beings? Let's see what the Bible says:

  • In John 8:4 a woman that the religious leaders caught in the very act of adultery was brought to Jesus. They all expected him to make an example of her. Instead, of condemning her, he gave the famous rebuke, "Let the one of you who is without sin cast the first stone!"
  • In the story of the good Samaritan a Priest and Levite walk past a stranger who was robed and beaten without offering any help. These two representatives of God weren't just being jerks. They were trying to remain ritually clean as was commanded in the old testament. Leviticus...
  • There are numerous passages in the Bible about Jesus being at parties keeping company with Harlots, prostitutes, and all kinds of other sinners and drinking, often with un-patriotic tax collectors. (Mt 9;10) (Lk 7;36) (Mk 2;13) If you are saying what Jesus drank was not true alcohol then I would ask you why was he accused of being a drunkard in Matthew 11:19

    Jesus was not uptight or judgmental. He did not teach blind adherence to laws. What he did teach was Love, Mercy, Compassion and as I said Unity.

    Matt 25 31 40"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be in front of him, and he will separate everyone into two groups, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep in their place of honor the goats on his left.

    Then the King will say to those sheep, 'You may come. My Father see's you as most fortunate, and now you may take your inheritance: The kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

    For I was hungry and you gave me Food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

    Then they will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we think you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

    The King will reply, 'The way I see it, whatever you did for one of the least of my people, you did for me as well.'"

    Of course these arguments will not convince you one way or another on the "Homosexuality" subject. That's a place you've got to get to on your own. My point is merely that using the scripture to divide us in this way is missing the whole point of the Gospel.

  •  Posted 2/23/2007 12:20 PM - 17 comments

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    PS: If any of you see any Grammar problems that I missed, please feel free to mention them. I won't be sending it to Jon till just before I leave. So a final edit couldn't hurt.

    Posted 2/23/2007 11:55 AM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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    Posted 2/23/2007 12:31 PM by CosmicMonkey Xanga Premium Member - reply

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    Like your ideas but they are liberal (very different from ya).

    I would take it a step further and say there should be respect and we should work to find common ground between Christians and non-Christians tooo. But that has been done and it is a glorious place called America. You only want to extend the olive branch to other Christians?? We all agree murder, stealing, lying are wrong. We disagree and must compromise on other things. 

    I was talking to my girlfriend last night argueing something about evangelicals etc And I told her she needs to listen to K-Wave (a popular evangelical channel out here) and she might come to agree with me that the EV's are a dangerous, insane bunch. (She says the same things as you that I am just like them, no different etc).

    I told her that they have sermons about the fact that Catholics (she is Catholic) are going to Hell . She either doesn't beleive me or cannot conceptionalise it because she hasn't heard it. She perhaps thinks I "read into what they were saying" or whatever trying to trump up what was said....however her 6 year old could  understood it becasue it was simple. Catholics aren't true Christians and will burn in the pit of Hell. I wish she would hear it cuz then she might not be as sympathetic to the EV's whom she and most Christians give over deserved respect only because they beleive in Jesus too.  (this message is pure marketing btw, beat the competittion for the tithes, expand your business etc)

    Strange, I on the otherhand who am all for equallity, freedom of religion, the constitution yet am veiwed worse than the EV's becasue I do not beleive Jesus is the savior etc . by her and you. The strange conclusion that a bad Christian is better than a good heathen but that is the problem with the state of affairs right now.

    You claim to be liberal etc yet you spend most of your time bashing liberals and seculars like me because I figure you are doing God's will. EV's are miss guided but I guess you think at least they are bringing people to Jesus and Seculars are far worse. I am possitive this is why most main stream Christians find it sooooo hard to Corral or even speak a disparraging against the ever growing extreme wing of your religion.

    You and alot of people rightly point at the crazy wakked out muslims and say they are insane and kill eachother and the religion is thus crazy based on their action. I agree with ya too. The are nuts. You somehow think It cannot happen in Christianity and well EV's beleive in Jesus so they will only go so far. Look no further than Ireland up until recently and Catholics and Protestants were killing etc other. Through out history Christianity has had its Shitte and Sunni like wars and death and destruction.

    We liberals with the guidance of the founding Fathers and the constitution have set in place a country with laws regarding religion and government where we are forever mindful of fanaticism and have set up a system to keep it at bay. You and the EV's want to take the shackles of seperation of church and state off and unleash fundamentalism on this country of ours. You probably think we are white, we won't act like the Arabs or kid yourself that Christianity doesn't lend itself to such bloodshed and oppression. Turn on K-Wave. They are telling other Christians even if you go to Church, pray to Jesus, etc you still are going to Hell because you aren't the True Christian like them. Same bullshit dude. Don't kid yourself for a minute...people are people and religon can (doesn't mean it does...but it can) lead to fundamentalism and fanatical behavior. 

    Next wednesday the Supreme Court will take a case on the establishment clause. The Right wing Court lead by Scalia will take out their sledge hammers and all but destroy the foundation in the wall between church and state which I am sure you are cheering like a high school cheerleader.

    Be careful what you wish for my boy, It just might come true. (In this case I am sure it will) 

    Posted 2/23/2007 12:58 PM by tendollar4ways - reply

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    Wow your friend there is pretty racist isn't he?

    This was the subject of your sermon when we were visiting your church wasn't it? See I doo pay attention. But you made a couple of new points in this and left a whole bunch'a stuff out!

    Like all the David and golith stuff and the stories about Jesus and that blind guy and some other stuff I can't remember!

    Do you keep that sermon anywhere I think I'd might like to listen again after reading this!

    Also when is the release date for the Ghost?

    Posted 2/23/2007 1:14 PM by shotoboy - reply

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    RYC, I liked your thoughts on having him around to show others how right you are and how wrong he is. So i unblocked him. Whats with your profile pics. Is that really you or somenoe else?
    Posted 2/23/2007 1:32 PM by BurkeW Xanga True Member - reply

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    Wow, I liked this article quite a lot. I always thought why were there so many limitations in Christianity from not being able to eat shrimp to the main issue of homosexuality. This somewhat explains it to me.
    Posted 2/23/2007 1:56 PM by ooEnigmatic - reply

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    Posted 2/23/2007 2:01 PM by fivepts - reply

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    Semantics..semantics...semantics...

    I am buying you a dictionary to read on your flight.

    You obviously mistake being liberal for being passive. Not true. Liberals are and always will be the strongest fighters anbd warriors against injustice in the world. Granted they don't use tanks, guns or violence (religions method of choice) and have determined non-violence is the best way to go when changing hearts and minds but fight and stand in defiance to injustice we do.

    Your idea of liberalism is to let anyone do anything. Let the EV's take over the government and oppress the non-beleivers is palatibale to you because you are also Christian. Using your liberal definition of "liberal" you should also be for Rednecks not allowing blacks to vote in the south, women not being allowed to drive in Saudi Arabi and most certainly been for the Nazis treatment of the Jews in Germany cuz everything is permisable and acceptable under your defintion.

    If you say no to the latter 3 but accept the first one because they are "christian". You are thus a fundamentalist illogically biased fanatic like that guy Burkew. All 4 are unacceptable to a liberal because they infringe on other people's rights, it is unjust and plain ole wrong.

    Your arguement that Christians are hurt if they cannot make everyone else observe and live by their teachings, they are hurt becasue they cannot have their religious symbols in court rooms held in higher esteem than everyone else's symbols and hurt because they cannot teach creationsism and the 10k year old earth nonsense to everyone's child is complete horseshit.

    Tooo friggin bad. Same thing with a sadist or a rapist. They will be "hurt" if they cannot rape or torture someone else but they cannot becasue it infringes on the rights of the person who doesn't want to be raped or tortured.

    Self control and respect is what many christians and MOST evangelicals lack. It has obviously made you incapable of understanding logic.

    Is the dictionary considered evil in your church?? I am very currious do they tell you the devil is inside or something? I swear it is fine dude....the dictionary is OK. I don't know what your pastor told you but there is no pictures of naked girls or the devil.

    Posted 2/23/2007 2:37 PM by tendollar4ways - reply

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    Posted 2/23/2007 3:45 PM by missp1nk - reply

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    oh yeah you commented on my other xanga www.xanga.com/ittybittynary. this is also my other one. i know i'm crazy!
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    Posted 2/23/2007 3:45 PM by missp1nk - reply

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    Well, I haven't been on Xanga much in a while, but this was a pretty interesting, thought-provoking post, so I thought I'd reply.

    Overall, I agree with you. I believe that Christians are far too outspoken on the issue of homosexuality. I'm not really sure why we have picked this to be our "favorite sin," but it has been blown far out of proportion. Contrary to what some picketers may say, God does NOT hate fags, but rather "wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim 2:4). After all, is God not a God of love? God does not expect us to be perfect and to work our way to Him, but came to meet us instead. As the Apostle Paul wrote, "while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Rom 5:8). And how are people supposed to come to God when Christians are constantly pushing them away, saying that they are not good enough? Jesus even specifically said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners" (Mark 2:17). Perhaps, instead of condemning homosexuals and using political capital to oppress them, the Christian community should reach out in God's love.

    However, I would like to say that, while I do not think Christians should spurn homosexuals, homosexuality is defined as a sin by the Bible. It is not only the Old Testament that states this; there are several reference to homosexuality in the New Testament (1 Cor 6:9-10, Rom 1:26-27, 1 Tim 1:9-10). While you can say that homosexuality was never dealt with explicitly (i.e. Jesus telling a homosexual directly that he was living in sin), the Bible definitely lumps homosexuality in with some other serious sins. That's pretty difficult to explain away.

    These verses, however, get me back to my first point, that Christians pick homosexuality as a "special" sin. Why do we not also march on Washington to protest drunkeness or excessive greed (listed right next to homosexuality in 1 Cor 6:9-10)? Perhaps it's the grossness factor, or maybe it's simply easier to pick on homosexuals. I can only hope that my fellow Christians will learn to move on and treat everyone with the love and forgiveness that God has for us.

    However, I would be interested to hear your reply to this. In your article, you mention the Greek word for homosexuality, but never explain how that fits into your point that Paul doesn't condemn homosexual behavior. Do you believe that modern Bibles have mistranslated Paul's writings or that the word was taken out of context? I am very curious.

    Thank you for another good article. I always enjoy a good Xanga discussion of some heavy issues.
    Posted 2/23/2007 6:38 PM by mdawg6448 - reply

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    Very interesting article!  Personally, I don't think Christians should judge others.  That is what I have been taught, and it makes sense to me.  Like many people, unfortunately, I find myself judging people all the time.  It's a personal trait I am not proud of. 
    Posted 2/23/2007 11:45 PM by chatdollz Xanga Premium Member - reply

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    I'm going to print this and read it (I know you wont mind)   Just have a better chance of getting to finish it if I do it that way.
    Posted 2/24/2007 9:19 AM by homeschoolingthem Xanga True Member Xanga Lifetime Member - reply

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    RE Mad Dog: I agree with most of what you except where you say that: "the Bible definitely lumps homosexuality in with some other serious sins." If I had, had more space to deal with for the article there is a lot more that would've been said. I will consider that before sending my final email to Jon. (I mean the whole article)

    But like I said I had a great deal to cut for space saving reasons. This is after all just an article in a local magazine. However here is part of what I had to cut which addresses your specific concerns:

    "This brings us to the New Testament verses that are supposedly about homosexuality. Unlike Leviticus the New Testament was actually written to Christians, so these should make for a much stronger argument. But it still has huge problems. To start with neither Jesus nor Paul directly condemns Homosexuality.

    I'll start with the 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and I Timothy 1:9-10 passages because they are the most direct.

    According to not just most scholars, but almost all scholars the Greek word most commonly used for homosexual at the time was "Paiderasste." As evidence this is true one can point to much of the literature that has survived from the time. (And there is a lot.)

    A close look at the two scriptures mentioned above reveals that the two words translated in some versions as Homosexuality is in fact "Malakoi" and "Arsenokoitai" respectively. Not "Paiderasste." Given the context most would assume that he is talking about male prostitutes and or ritual sex done in the pagan temples.

    The Bible of course is not totally clear, so a case could easily be made for it including "Paiderasste." But my point is that it's a very weak case. Certainly too weak to base a whole doctrine on. In fact if this doctrine is true then why did Jesus or Paul not simply forbid "Paiderasste" outright? Why not put the whole controversy to rest with four words? (Three in Greek)

    Also I would like to point out that the vast majority of people who disagree with the above statements do not even read Greek. Neither modern nor ancient. That is a snotty, but very valid point to make.

    Now we come to Romans (Rom 1:26-27) we again find no mention of the word "Paiderasste." In fact we don't find "Malakoi" or "Arsenokoitai" either. Which is strange since this is the most common passage used to defend crusades against homosexuality. What we do find is Paul describing a curse put upon a certain group of sinners (Note that they are considered sinners before the curse) which sounds like God confusing their sexuality.

    Some could make the argument that the curse is for them to sin, but this is a weak argument in light of the fact that none of the twelve plagues from exodus are considered to be sins. You first born dying is a sin? Of course not!"

    Posted 2/24/2007 1:32 PM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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    Long post, my friend. Where to start? Multi-denominational

    Might it also include those who are searching, may not be Christian, or of any denomination?

    Perhaps, then, not everyone believes in God, or the “same” Jesus, or even thinks there is a “same Bible.” For example, there are several chapters in the Roman Catholic Bible which are not found in the Protestant Bibles. Maccabeus, for example. In fact, one may find variances between most Protestant bibles, Roman Catholic Bibles, Eastern Orthodox Bibles and Slavonic Bibles, yet in a diversified society and a multi-denominational church, one may find people coming any of the above mentioned disciplines.

    There are variances in people’s perception of God. Most would assume a Creator, but from there come a variety of “interpretations’. This include more historical concepts, such as Deist concept of a God who does not intervene in human affairs., to a God so involved in human affairs that He will open up parking spaces over at the mall, and this in response to a believer’s prayer. Some see the old Testament God - smiting and destroying not only peoples - Pharaoh’s Army, for example, but most of humanity in a world-wide flood. Some see the loving aspect of God. Some see the God of retribution who will bring forth the Armageddon.

    We found in the aftermath of 9/11, that when people are in common peril there is a sense of unity. That unity, if only briefly, supersedes individual differences. In this sense, a belief in God, and Jesus, and the Bible may ultimately become the Apple Pie, and Motherhood of faith; that despite individual tweaking and quibbling over ritual, people of faith have some higher sense of oneness that trumps the natty questions of baptism, music in churches, proper wearing apparel.

    My answer is that after all is said and done, it is the commonality which will over-ride the rest, that the parts will not ever be greater than the whole when push comes to shove.

    You mention church music. Different denominations hold differing beliefs; from no music, to no instrumentation, to A Cappella only, and so forth. Is music/no music linked to one’s salvation? Does entry into heaven hinge upon resolving this issue? Does obedience? Once music is put in proper perspective, then it can be more logically, and less emotionally, discussed and possibly agreed upon for the congregants, than bringing heaven into the mix. In a multi-denominational church, would it not be easy to make concessions to several viewpoints, alternating church services accordingly; perhaps during the early service and later service, or a night time service, or alternating weekly?

    The question involving doubt is interesting. God invites us to reason with Him. If things are intrinsically known, why reason over anything, when, why, where and how would doubt creep in? Doubt is an essential element in faith, as it is in all life’s experiences. Doubt is a learning tool. If one believes in God the Creator, then doubt must be an integral part of the creative experience.

    When you get into beliefs and mix them with political endeavors, I believe that we all have the right to voice our opinion, and do so freely. However, we have a basis for government which is different that the basis for the formation of a church. In the constitution we have the notion of a separation between church and state. On the TV I see an ad being run by an organization called “My religious rights.” The show Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan giving speeches. In the original speeches, each man used the word “Go.” In the commercial, the name is “bleeped” out. The question is asked” What would American be like without God?” or something to that effect. Then it claims that God is slowly and deliberately being excluded. That is not true. But, there are those who do not think it right to have religious themes in Federal places, or prayers in government institutions. If a President, or senator wishes to proclaim God, or Jesus, that is not offensive. That is personal belief. But, we are not a Christian nation, rather a nation with a preponderance of Christians, and our laws are designed to protect everyone, including those who are not in the majority. When the government puts locks on church doors and imprisons Christians, then it is time to worry, if not before.

    I am not going to debate about homosexuality. I found one sentence of particular interest. You said: Jon recently gave me the most original argument that I’ve heard in a long time. That anything the Old Testament labeled as “disgusting” to the Jews should not be done by Christians either.”

    That is horse manure. Jesus was “disgusting’ the ruling Jews of His time. When He separated the wheat from the chaff on the Sabbath. When He healed people. When He claimed that the faith of others healed. When he cavorted with Samarians, for goodness sakes. The man appeared a walking contradiction and an abomination to many. One of the key issues when we read about eating shellfish, or a woman covering her head, and all the other laws is that many were designed and used for three distinct purposes. One was to set the Jews apart from what all non-Jews were doing. It was a badge of identity, a clock of exclusivity. Secondly, many of the rules were part of the holiness code for entering the temple. Finally, many of the rules dealt it basic nutritional and hygienic concerns. So far as the rules, Jesus was a rule breaker in the eyes of many, a rebel.

    You actually touch this when you explain that the Old testament was written for the Jews. The problem with the New Testament is Paul, whom I consider an anti-Christ, counter-revolutionary. Paul loops back to the kind of Pharisaical laws which Jesus criticized.

    Jesus was many things and he is contradictory at times. To rely upon the Bible for real knowledge is a near impossible task. Jesus says that anyone who breaks the least commandment, and teaches others to, he shall be the least in the kingdom of God. Oh, goodly. I can break commandments and still go to heaven? No repentance? Ok. Then, when Jesus worked on the Sabbath, thereby breaking a commandment, He will be among the least in heaven? And if he next to God, then God will be right down there with Jesus, amongst the lesser folk?

    In fact, when we discuss religion and faith we come up against the outer boundary where language is no longer sufficient. The so-called Bible is a collection of historical footnotes, poetry, pithy sayings and fine psychology. It is a premer on purpose, not a blueprint for Creation, or the progression of the natural world through time. The elements which are universal are superior to ritual. Eating pork, for goodness sake. In a land where fodder for livestock is precious and water scarce, why husband pigs which are very single purpose - a meat source rather than garner all substances to sustain cattle and goats and sheep which are more multi-purposed - milk, cheese, wool, beast of burden? Some of what is written is more ancient than the Jewish region, far older than the notion of a mono-theistic world.

    Science is moving rapidly. Clones. Cells being made into liver tissue, or mouse teeth. Test tube babies. Babies conceived outside the womb. These scientific advances may challenge people of faith to look beyond the words of the Bible. Issues, such as homosexuality, will not be solved so long as politicians use such as tools to gain power in office. Abortion is another such political hot button. If one doesn’t like homosexuals, then blame God for creating them. If they don’t like abortion, then put God in the docket. A good 20% of all abortions are natural and involuntary. That rests with God, not human beings. If we defend our “logic’ using the Bible, we can find the words of Hitler and Ronnie Reagan to do the same, that is we can use the words of others to defend our particular position.

    We mustn’t forget in our push to claim we are people who rise out of the Judeo-Christian heritage that Judaism and Christianity are fundamentally distinct, different and essentially at odds with one another. When we consider Jesus, we must consider Him through His words - that he came to fulfill the laws of Moses and the warnings of the prophets. His commandment, if you will, was to have Peter utilize his faith to form the church. Paul, however, assumed that duty for himself by forming and codifying an institution upon his own thinking, his own theological interpretation, and his own rules. He was commanded to be an instrument to take the message of Jesus to all the nations. Instead, he usurped Peter’s instructions, then begin his lifetime of causing dissention among other disciples and other nascent church organizations.

    Posted 2/24/2007 5:53 PM by jrmaxwell Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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    Homosexuality is a hard and important issue. It's becoming more and more acceptable. Note that I say acceptable and not tolerant. I tolerate homosexuals but do not accept the way they live. I do not agree with them but I will not harass or nag them (although, I'll inform them of their error if they say they're Christian). The Church is an active being and addresses issues that come up.

    Here are sites that may help:
    http://www.stonewallrevisited.com/menus/faq.html
    Posted 2/24/2007 11:21 PM by Tallon5 - reply

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     RYC: I don't believe I've ever commented on anything you've written.  I have no desire to engage in conversation with you.
    Posted 2/25/2007 6:10 PM by SMDuGood - reply


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