To the person who basically said I wasnt a christian because I like Harry Poter.

Of course that was extremely rude of determined soldier, It was not fair for him to have made that judgement, and unless he knows me he needs to frankly back off. I am not a sorceror, has he ever heard of fiction? Maybe his imagination is killed by his need to be right and possibly hurt other people's feelings. Harry Potter is alright for me, have you read LOTR? Just like the Chronicles of Narnia series, you just most likely wont accept it because it was written by a Christian author. The Chronicles is a Christian story but would you honestly say that a nonchristian reading LOTR would even get anything about God out of the story? Exactly.

We can debate on this for forever buta ll you would be giving me is other peoples opinions about BOOKS like Harry Potter so unless you have read it without a closed mind, their is no use in our debating.

People like you dont give things a chance..

I bet you dont even know Jk Rowling attends church and is a christian (she says she is), she also says that she has never had a child walk up to her and thank her for writing the books because they now she was a witch.

One more thing, if this were true you should never read a book or watch a mystery movie where someone gets killed, you should never watch a movie or read a books about someone who is ever disrespectful to their parents, where someone lies, where anyone has lustful thoughts, one that has any person jealous, wanting something someone else has or ANYTHING OF THE SORT.

Get back to me when you have eliminated these things completely.

Plus, what is okay for one christian may not be ok for another.

Romans 14

    1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

    5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

    9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
   " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
   'every knee will bow before me;
      every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

    13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

okay i do not know where you got your facts but j k rowlings is and outspoken witch you has made it her goal in life to evangilise witchcraft and she crafts here stories to seem more real then fantisie and yes i have read the books and i did so with and open mind because i was not saved when i read them but watch harry potter is a boy whos life sucks he has really low self esteem and then he finds out he has all this power this is what makes harry potter so captivating because so many kids struggle with self esteem and they see harry potter as themselves and then he gets all this power and they want it too on the flipside you read lotr it is pure fantisie set in a world that could never exsist and look at the chariters there are humans in there but those arnt even close to being real

btw there is a real school of witchcraft in england take a wild guess what its name is? Hogwarts

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

I was saved from the depths of hell four years ago, God gave me a second chance in life, I am still a babe in Christ and continuing to grow each day.  I dabbled in witchcraft, in tarot cards, I burned candles (as witches do) in order to create positive thoughts and outcomes.  I dated a guy who was a member of the satanic church in California, these things are stumbling blocks for me, so when I as a new Christian come across a site that not only supports witchcraft, but publically says it is okay that the two go hand and hand with Christianity, it is a "stumbling block" for me.  If you don't think it interupts your relationship with God thats one thing but to publically promote it is directly against the very scripture you quote to back up your "right" to enjoy the story.  Enjoy the story, but don't worship the story.  You stop at verse 18 but if you continue to read, the rest of the chapter it says... Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.  It is better NOT to eat meat or drink wine or to do ANYTHING else that will cause your brother to fall.  So whatever you believe about these things KEEP BETWEEN YOURSELF AND GOD.  Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what HE APPROVES.  But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and EVERYTHING that does not come from faith is sin.

So be careful that by you promoting this as okay for you and does not hinder you, that you are not possibly hindering another believer from falling back into a sin in which they were previously involved. 

And as much as it pleases you to demand someone not to judge you, it is written:  1 Corinthians 6:2 - "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?..."  It is easy for you to defend your actions, but I tell you this, when you profess Christianity, you are not only being judged by Christians but by the world.  All eyes are on you, and your actions are being mimicked, do you really want to send a message to the unbeliever that witchcraft is something to be enjoyed?  God condemns it, never does he condone it, even as for pleasure.  I have the opportunity to display my concerns as you have publically given permission.  I cannot nor will I ever apologize for my challenges put forth on your site today.  It is our duty as Christians to hold each other accountable for the statements we make & the stances we take.  If you don't want your opinions to be challenged, I suggest you hold fast to Romans 14.

Kimberly (I am a she, not a he)

Numbers 6:24-26

Whew, I knew it was a hot topic, but that doesn't mean we need to get steamed up about it!  Lol.

Confundus:  Mzungu is right -- what is okay for one may not be okay for another and may harm their conscience -- expect condemnation for controversial things.  Like drinking alcohol -- the Bible allows it (though not to excess) and even encourages it in medicinal context.  Yet that does not mean all people should drink it.  For many it is a stumbling block -- they have trouble restraining themselves, and so avoid it completely.  For others, it has bad connotations -- they see it as a symbol of evil (though by itself it may not be).  If you truly believe from your study of the Bible that what you are doing is perfectly acceptable in God's eyes, well and good -- but realize that others may come to a different understanding and see what you are doing as sin.  "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.  Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.  But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats [or drinks or reads], because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin."  --Romans 14:22-23 (NIV)  You are free to do it yourself, but be careful not to offend anyone else with it.

Furthermore, I don't have any reason to believe that Rowling is either a practicing Christian or a practicing witch.  I have heard both; they are obviously incompatible, and I assume that she is merely trying to "fit in" with everybody.

Mzungu:  I read Richard Abanes' Harry Potter and the Bible before starting on the series, and was expecting a lot of witchcraft and immorality.  What I found was a story that was slightly above average, with the expected character qualities and flaws of a non-Christian book and "magickal content" similar to fairy tales.  I am not condoning fairy tales, but am certain you would not assume that anyone who enjoys fairy tales must necessarily be a non-Christian.  All magick is from the same source.  However, far too few fantasy authors realize this -- they use it as a literary device, to add interest to their stories and help their characters achieve the impossible.  It is true that the HP books are "escapist" literature, but there is nothing inherently wrong with that.  As far as I can see (having read five of the books and seeing all three current movies), the main problems are with:
1.  Condoning and encouraging the use of magic
2.  Violence and some "gross-ness"
3.  Disregard for rules and authority

1.  There is a major difference between Rowling's, Lewis's, and Tolkien's treatment of the subject of magic, and I can go into that in detail if you want.  But Rowling in her books presents "magic" as a power only the "elite" of her world possess -- it's not available to everybody.  I do not know whether in her alleged studies of witchcraft (which I think Abanes has made more of than necessary) she uncovered the true meaning of magic -- using Satan's power -- but in her books, though she gives it a humorously semi-professional front, she pretty much sticks with the kind of magic you would find in a fairy tale or a fantasy videogame -- spells, charms, wizards, wands, special herbs, crystal balls, etc.  True, these have their place in actual witchcraft, but my point is that had she not studied that at all, she probably would have still incorporated the same elements.  And as for the supposed mass of children and teenagers that want to enter Harry Potter's world, I don't see any difference between that and teens playing Lord of the Rings RPGs or kids becoming unhealthily obsessed with some fad.  The only difference is that this is Harry Potter and magick.

2.  These books are obviously not directed at six-year-olds.  Harry starts out at eleven and grows a year each book, for crying out loud!  The first death occurs when he's fourteen!  I think fourteen-year-olds can handle that.  Besides, look at what they watch on television all the time.  As for the "grossness" -- well, that's our culture.  It is standard children's/teenager's story fare.  And Rowling has so far steered pretty clear of obscene humor.  There's a little inexcusable swearing, which grows worse as the series progresses, but even Dickens' characters use the word "damn" and some take the Lord's name in vain.  Surely you don't want us to throw those out, too.

3.  The characters' setting themselves above the rules is the main problem I have with these books.  Occasionally they get into trouble, but usually the end justifies the means.  Again, this is the standard attitude for a secular kid's book character.  This doesn't excuse it, but if we examined most kids' books the way we examine HP, we may well be surprised by what we find.

I do not believe that these books are healthy entertainment for all people.  I understand that they can pose a real stumbling block to those who are easily attracted to the supernatural.  However, they are no worse than the average secular kids' fantasy book, and for a well-discerning mind can provide some entertainment.  I enjoyed the stories (for the most part), even if I disagree with her means and motive.  She is a creative writer and is good at introducing unexpected twists to the plot.  Still, the books are not the epitome of excellency and may possibly rate a second or third reading, but not much more.

I KNOW I am going to get blasted for this.  Always feel free to have your opinions, but please try not to offend your siblings in Christ.

Salvation is tops among all things!  It is so important that our faith is solidified and founded on a good foundation, but sometimes the things that we debate and consider nonessential to our faith are but the contrary.  We all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.  To encourage something to be okay for one but not for another is simply wrong.  There is only one truth and one truth only; 2+2 always = 4.  There is no question or debate about it, but someone might justifiably argue that it could be 3 depending on the person who wrote the statement.  But still, the fact remains 2+2=4.  The Bible doesn't change from perspective to perspective, only we change, for God is the same today as He was yesturday.  Standing up for what you believe is hard to do.  If what you believe is questionable, the Bible says search the scriptures, test your faith prove it to be true.  Romans 14 says that if there is dout that it could be wrong, it is wrong and you are in sin if you do it.  This world existed without TV or movies or music or anything else that contained just a little fantasy or sin.  We can exist in a world where our choices steer us from the temptations set before us.  We do have the ability to fight against the principalities of this present darkness, and if you surcome to the babblings of the media, you are only allowing the devil footholds that will hinder you from the good fight, and that is the well equipped soldier of Christ.  I am and forever will be the Determined Soldier, seeking to stand firm on the Word of the Almighty God who punishes sin and will judge the heart of every man.  Debate is healthy and wisdom is essential, continue to encourage other believers, but remember that the little things are what deceive the believer.

Confundus:  Mzungu is right -- what is okay for one may not be okay for another and may harm their conscience -- expect condemnation for controversial things.  Like drinking alcohol -- the Bible allows it (though not to excess) and even encourages it in medicinal context.  Yet that does not mean all people should drink it.  For many it is a stumbling block -- they have trouble restraining themselves, and so avoid it completely.  For others, it has bad connotations -- they see it as a symbol of evil (though by itself it may not be).  If you truly believe from your study of the Bible that what you are doing is perfectly acceptable in God's eyes, well and good -- but realize that others may come to a different understanding and see what you are doing as sin.  "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.  Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.  But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats [or drinks or reads], because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin."  --Romans 14:22-23 (NIV)  You are free to do it yourself, but be careful not to offend anyone else with it.

That is exactly what I was saying por la cruz. I was saying that it is not a stumbling block for me, but it may be for others. That is why I no longer speak of Harry potter in front of my best friend and push her reading it, she does not want to and it offends her.

DeterminedSoldier:  Thank you for taking the time to join this discussion.

I would suggest that you read Romans 14.  There are some things that one person may believe is harmless, and another may perceive as sinful (the example Paul gives is eating meat offered to idols).  The one who believes it is harmless can do it with a clear conscience, but must exercise caution around those it offends.  The one who believes it is harmful should not do it, because even if it isn't sin itself, for this person to violate their conscience would be sin.

There is only one truth, but it does not always come in black and white; there are shades of gray.  All I am trying to point out is that the Harry Potter books, while they do contain objectionable material, are to those who can read them with a discerning mind and a clear conscience little different from most secular books and fairy tales.  I am not by this statement condoning all secular books and fairy tales, but merely pointing out the proper place for the HP books.  If you make it a point to avoid fairy tales and non-Christian fantasy, avoid these as well.  If you read them for cultural understanding or whatever values you can find, these should not be a larger-than-usual problem.

With all due respect, por_la_cruz, I have read Romans 14 on several occassions for several reasons, because so many "Christians" use it to back up their lifestyle, saying that it is okay for them.  I think people stretch to find things in the Bible to support their lifestyle.  As far as shades of gray, I don't think so.  The last verse in Romans 14 states that anything not done IN FAITH is sin.  Well, where does faith come from? God.  Ephesians 2:8&9 says For it is by grace we are saved, through faith, which is a GIFT FROM GOD, not by works less any man should boast.  Paul says in 1Corinthians 6:12 that "Everything is permissible for me" -- but not beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me" -- but I will not be mastered by anything.  Romans 12:1-3 says Therefore I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy to offer your bodies as LIVING SACRIFICES, holy and pleasing to God -- This is your spiritual act of worship.  Do not be conformed any longer to the pattern of this world, but be TRANSFORMED by the renewing of your mind.  Then you will be able to test and approve what God's WILL is -- His good, pleasing and perfect will. For by grace given me I say to every one of you: DO NOT THINK YOURSELF MORE HIGHLY THAN YOU OUGHT, but rather think of yourself with sober judgement, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 

Basically means, do not think that you will not be affected by the things you subject yourself to.  Do not think that because one time exposure will not entangle you in sin.  There is a reason that God tells us to flee from temptation.  He wants to protect us from the dangers of sin.  Do you think embezzlers start out stealing millions perhaps billions of dollars?  No, it always starts with one dollar here another there, until it snowballs.  Do you think that an alcoholic woke up one day and said, I think I'll drink til I become an alcoholic?  No, it started with the first drink.  So be careful of your "gray areas" The Bible is clear and universally condemns alcohol.  The Bible says to be of sober mind, to be ready to answer everyone, can you do that inhibited?  Be careful what you approve, because someone like me who has a history of drinking, or my brother who used to be an alcoholic but both of us are now saved by grace and are new creations and have been washed by the blood of the Lamb, if we perhaps were new Christians and knew you and saw that Hey he's a Christian and he says it is okay to drink, so we drink and once again my brother is ensnared by the devil's juice, you would be held accountable for causing your brother to stumble.  You cannot hold one to one standard and another to another.  There is only ONE STANDARD and that is Jesus Christ, and He NEVER drank alcohol.  if you don't believe me, quote the scripture that says he did. 

Thank you for allowing me in this debate, I enjoy it. God Bless,

Kimberly

Ok 1. you have to realize that Harry Potter is a "fantasy witch/wizard. Never once does he worship the devil or call upon satanic powers. He uses a wand made with mythical creatures tail in it.

      2. Confundus has good point saying that you really need to read the books before judging them.  There are some people who say the mandrakes are a symbol of JK Rowling supporting abortion! if you would read it some of the "evil" "satanic" views you have of Harry Potter would probably be a weaker.

      3. You can find Christ in almost everything! J.R.R Tolkein said himself he didn't intend LOTR to be a symbolic book about Christ.  I believe that God is sovereign. Therefore, He can use anything to tell a story of Christ.  Haven't you read the last book written in the Harry Potter series? The head wizard and the only one that evil (voldermort) fears sacrifices himself so Harry won't die. Hm... for those who think Narnia series is ok, does that little example ring a bell? Aslan does the same thing.

      4.  I don't know what JK Rowling is....she could be a witch or a Christian. I don't think many people know. There are to many facts going around

      5. Just to establish this, we are never going to settle this but it is still fun to debate = ) just don't get mean.

Ok well I gotta go to church. YES! I am a heathen I am going to church right after discussing Harry Potter lol jk

-Haden

Kimberly -- What I am saying is not that alcohol is something for one person to pursue and is sin to another.  It is allowed (with restraint) but not recommended, and for some can be dangerous.  There is one standard, but there are variations within that standard.  (Also note that Paul recommends "a little wine" to Timothy because of its medicinal purpose.)

The Bible is not explicitly clear on every issue.  Gambling is not allowed, but what about playing cards without gambling?  For some people, it is too much of a temptation to gamble -- they should avoid it and not be pressured into it by those who see it as mere entertainment.  But for those latter there may be no problem at all.  I am sorry that I offended you; I would not tell anyone that they should drink alcohol -- I will probably never drink any myself.  But I don't believe it is a sin -- it just leads too easily to temptation.  Excess is not right (Ecclesiastes teaches moderation in all things), and intoxication impairs judgment.  However, alcohol itself, if taken restrainedly, can be perfectly fine for some people -- it is not my place to condemn them for that.  Whether or not Jesus drank alcohol (but remember that he partook in the Passover, including the "wine" which may or may not have been alcoholic), note the Bible also abstains from telling us that he played cards, invested in stock, or ran a footrace.  This does not make these things wrong.  It doesn't give us any word on it one way or another.  It doesn't say he did, and doesn't say he didn't.

I do understand and respect the fact that books like Harry Potter pose a real stumbling block to many people.  Asking them to read them is the last thing I want to do.  I am only trying to clarify the position of those who can read the books without any damage to their conscience or temptation to sin.  Reading about an embezzler's methods will probably not make you decide to go embezzle, unless you are already vulnerable to that temptation.  Vulnerability to temptation is NOT a bad thing -- EVERYONE, including myself, is far weaker in certain areas than other people are.  The point is that you need to recognize and guard against that vulnerability, even and especially if it means refraining or abstaining from activities that are harmless to Christians who are stronger in that area.  Again, refer to Paul's example of eating meat offered to idols.

Haden -- why did you have to go and spoil that?  I haven't read #6 yet!   Oh, well.  I kind of expected it.

But that doesn't make her a Christian -- in fact, the total disregard for authority and rules in her main characters certainly compels one to assume that she is definitely not a Christian.  Non-Christians understand the meaning of self-sacrifice, even if not as deeply as we do.

I don't think JK Rowling is a Christian or a witch. I think she is an author who has a gift for writng good stories and she made a lot of money with it. I really think people are trying to say that she worte a book to cause controversy when she just wrote a book.

I do want to say that when I have children I won't let them read Harry Ptter until they are old enough to differentiate fantasy and reality.

-Haden

p.s. sorry scott = (

Thanks, Mikal.

Haden:  That's basically what I think, too.  And you definitely have a good point there; in fact, that's what Mom did with us:  we studied fantasy as a literature assignment, and only then did we get to start in on even fairy tales or the Chronicles of Narnia.  =)
And I forgive you.  Don't worry about it.

The problem is that noone knows their limitations until they are caught in the middle of a certain sin.  Just because you have never taken your first drink or bet your first dime, doesn't mean you are stronger in the resisting of that temptation.  I was 23 before I had my first drink.  I was older than that before I smoked my first joint.  I was a active member of the church as a youth, involved in any and every activity of the church.  I was the "goody goody" that everyone in high school knew where I stood so I was the designated driver.  But it only takes so many times of being exposed to something before you partake.  And noone knows where their weakness may lie.  Since Romans 14 is being used here so emphatically I will quote it once again - "But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats."  Romans 12:3 - "Do not think yourself more highly than you ought"  I once thought as you thought and I am telling you from experience, no one is strong enough to resist the entrapment and trickery of the devil.  So as each of you so strongly try and persuade yourelves that a little of this and a little of that is okay, just be prepared when you can no longer control your desire, that it has suddenly become an obsession.

By the way, I have seen both Harry Potter movies.  I saw them before I was saved, and as a little girl I loved Dungeons and Dragons and anything fantasy.  I am not ignorant of the books you read or the magic you talk.  Please quit implying that I speak out of ignorance.  I speak out of love because I once thought as you and once spoke as you.  I can't change your mind nor can I steer you in another direction, I can only speak from experience and warn you of the danger that lies ahead.  And for the person who said that they would not expose their children to it until they are older, don't think they don't see what you do, or what you watch.  We are all held to the same standard, and you ought not watch, read or listen to anything you don't want those innocent ears to hear, because if they can't hear it, neither should you.  We are called to a holy standard, to be set apart, to be washed by the blood.  Don't taint the garment because you think your age gives you the right, you sold those rights to calvary the day you surrendered your life to Christ.  The Christian life is supposed to be different than the rest, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.  It is easy to argue about sin, what is right and what is permissable.  All things are permissable but not all things are beneficial.  Once saved, there is nothing that can pluck you from the hand of God, but walking in obedience and reverence is commanded.  And through that obedience blessings come, through disobedience, consequences come.  I hope and pray that you walk the straight path leaning niether to the left or to the right.  All day long you can throw curve balls, arguing whether you can or cannot do something, but what it basically amounts to is:  Is what you are doing for the glory of the Lord?  Anything not done is faith is sin.  Do you want to live in habitual sin bound by it or do you want tolive in freedom bound by grace?  It's your choice...

To give a further example, some (otherwise good) movies throw in a bit of foul language or indecency.  Some Christians can appreciate the storyline and the production without being tempted to use the language themselves or (incomprehenisble to me though I know it is true) being tempted by lust.  For these Christians, they see the sin as sin and avoid it.  They can place a barrier between themselves and the sin even as they enjoy the story.  Since the sin does not tempt them, they are able to see it as sin and distance themselves from that aspect of the plot even while absorbing the rest.  For others, the sin is a stumbling block, and those people should skip over those parts of the movie or avoid the movie altogether.

The standard is the same for everyone, but is not met the same way by everyone.  One person can walk through a candy store without being tempted to steal; another, because of his pre-conversion life of theft, has to wait outside to avoid this temptation.  And please realize that I do not see this as wrong.  The sensitivity is GOD-GIVEN.  He will use that to accomplish great things through you that could not otherwise be accomplished.  Yet it would be better for both people to avoid the candy store altogether on that particular trip.  It may be that I should never have brought this topic up in the first place -- perhaps this was, in a way, "eating in front of you".  I do apologize for any offense I or anyone else has caused in this debate, and I can close it if you want.  On the other hand, since it has already been started and several different perspectives have been thrown out, you might want to continue it a bit longer.  Let me know which you would prefer.

DeterminedSoldier--I appreciate your strong stand for absolute truth in a relative truth promoting world and media. I have been convicted and challenged by your words. It is so easy to fall into the mindset of being accepting and politically correct of all things. We begin to believe that we are STRONG enough to handle our fleshly desires and in the end it leads to our destruction. por_la_cruz you are very wise and are obviously seeking to grow in your walk with Christ. I appreciate your willingness to hear the wisdom and knowledge of other sisters and brothers in Christ to help you grow and challenge your faith. I have to admit that you have opened my eyes to my need to abstain from movies with filty language because for so long I thought it wasnt affecting me, but who was I kidding . . . your right I can not stop from hearing those words--and we all know that whatever we feed more wins. . .and I want to feed the Holy Spirit more in my life not my fleshly desires. My flesh does desire so many things, but I have got to yield to the Holy Spirit's desires instead. Thanks so much for the encouraging and insightful conversation determinedsoldier and por_la_cruz.

Kelly

Thank you for your encouragement, DeterminedSoldier and TotallyHis.

DeterminedSoldier: regarding your analogy with the brownies, I think that was well-put and pretty much correct.  Still, I think it carries the point just a little too far.  Almost anything you read will have sinful material in it.  Of course, if it is written by a Christian or someone whose moral standards closely parallel those of a Christian, the wrong will not be condoned or encouraged as it obviously is in Rowling's books.  I do not endorse the Harry Potter series.
In fact, having read Richard Abanes' book Harry Potter and the Bible, I didn't plan to read them at all and thought as you did that no true Christian could enjoy them.  However, one of my friends really loved the books, and since she had also read Abanes's work, I didn't have any way to argue.  So I went ahead and read the first book as objectively as I could, and it became apparent to me that Abanes was overreacting.  The positive portrayal of sorcery was definitely and inexcusably there, but it seemed to me that Rowling was not so much trying to convert people to witchcraft as she was trying to sell her books by throwing in fantasy elements that children enjoy.  (The whole world has been pretty much desensetized to the evils of witchcraft thanks to our countless fairy tales in storybook and Disney movie form.)  The books are engaging, Rowling is creative, and her writing style is a little above mediocre.  Her morals are twisted (the end ALWAYS justifies the means), and the magic is there, but on the whole I don't believe these stories are any more damaging to the average reader than most fairy tales, which also incorporate the same (wrong) values.  I have made the decision, and must answer to God if it is wrong, to read the series for what positive entertainment they possess (and they do possess some) while holding fast to the knowledge that witchcraft, in whatever form, is wrong.
But I do have another note on that:  Sorcery and witchcraft are wrong.  Yet the concept of "magic" as a literary tool -- a "what if" is rather attractive.  IF, hypothetically speaking, an author were to write about a character's ability to make things happen by pure force of will without supernatural intervention, would that be wrong?  I am not suggesting that this is what Rowling is attempting to do.  Still, I have the feeling that most fantasy authors do not really understand what magic is.  This could be very dangerous in that they are invoking spiritual powers they do not understand, or it might possibly be better than if they did know -- for what they are calling "magic" might, in some instances, actually be more closely related to science fiction's "what if"s.  Just something to think about....

Thank you very much for the time you have spent in this discussion and for your opinions and perspectives.

I understand your curiousity, although I cannot support the rationale.  I thank you again for opening up this debate.  I think it is healthy to discuss and I enjoyed the banter.  I kinda wanted to clear up one of my earlier statements, I noticed when rereading the dialog that you could have possibly read the statement "with all due respect" as reactive, but I meant it truly with all respect.  I meant the statement to thwart off any misreading when I stated the fact that I had already read Romans 14.  I am not at all offended by your pure desire to seek God's truth.  Can I suggest a couple of Christian authors who write spiritual fiction that may enlighten you of the warfare that exists?  Randy Alcorn and Frank E. Peretti.  These men have studied the deception of the beast and I think it would be a good read for you and your study of the supernatural.  God Bless,

Kimberly

Galatians 6:9